Generational Failure

[DHK]

Fine.

I want you to take some too.

Arent you old. Shouldn't you lead the way?

Do you take any responsibility?

Or are you under the delusion that your generation was wonderful?

I already quoted to you some of the things my generation has done and is doing.
I took seriously the command to forsake all that you have and go and follow Jesus; to go into all the world and preach the gospel. I have been in nations that you probably would not think of going to.

So in answer to your question: Yes I have taken responsibility, and continue to take responsibility, even at an age when most men contemplate retirement.

From your generation, I hear "Lordship salvation"--all talk and no action.
Armchair theologians who are willing to talk about "forsaking all" but not willing to do it. I call it hypocrisy of a younger generation who don't know what following Jesus is all about, nor do they know what "walking by faith" is.

 

[Aaron]

God uses means.

God uses everything, even the wrath of man to praise Him. But the wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God. My statement is not about what God can accomplish, but about what you can accomplish.

You have no idea what I have been through. You don't know how broken I am.

Your posts are eminent indicators. They do not reveal one moved to prayer for the ones against which you rant. They do not reveal one wanting to strengthen the feedble knees, or lift the hands that hang down. They reveal one breathing railing accusations. Something the angels dare not even do.

Like I said, if God has anything to do with you, you'll learn, but judging from your posts, you won't learn from the admonition of seven men who can render an answer, you'll learn from experience. And as the old idiom cited by Calvin says, Experience is the teacher of fools.

 

[Luke2427]

I already quoted to you some of the things my generation has done and is doing.
I took seriously the command to forsake all that you have and go and follow Jesus; to go into all the world and preach the gospel. I have been in nations that you probably would not think of going to.

So in answer to your question: Yes I have taken responsibility, and continue to take responsibility, even at an age when most men contemplate retirement.

From your generation, I hear "Lordship salvation"--all talk and no action.
Armchair theologians who are willing to talk about "forsaking all" but not willing to do it. I call it hypocrisy of a younger generation who don't know what following Jesus is all about, nor do they know what "walking by faith" is.

So, let me get this straight. You think your generation sent out more missionaries than mine?

Is that right?

I think my generation is a mess. But I think yours was FAR, FAR, FAR worse.

 

[Luke2427]

God uses everything, even the wrath of man to praise Him. But the wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God. My statement is not about what God can accomplish, but about what you can accomplish.

And so you have accomplished a great deal, right?

You have built a lot of churches, have you? You have baptized hundreds, right?

You are old, right? You've been on the earth plenty longer than me, right? So your resume should dwarf mine, right?

And it does, I assume, is what you are saying.

Your posts are eminent indicators. They do not reveal one moved to prayer for the ones against which you rant. They do not reveal one wanting to strengthen the feedble knees, or lift the hands that hang down.

You are a spiritual giant with such a sweet spirit, right? That's what everybody who has debated you says of you, isn't it?

They reveal one breathing railing accusations. Something the angels dare not even do.

See, you don't know your Bible.

That's Jude and he is talking about railing accusations AGAINST SATAN- not period, just against Satan.

As old as you are, and as many years as you have had to learn the Bible, you'd think you'd know that.

Most of the young Christians I associate with DO know it. Another failure of your generation.

Like I said, if God has anything to do with you, you'll learn, but judging from your posts, you won't learn from the admonition of seven men who can render an answer, you'll learn from experience. And as the old idiom cited by Calvin says, Experience is the teacher of fools.

Then as old as you are you must not have had much experience. You do not know the Bible. You do not know church history. You are just as hateful as you claim I am. You do not even understand Calvinism. Have you wasted these many years? Why has experience not helped YOU any?

Did you know the Bible condemns calling people fools? It seems like you would have read the Bible by now.

 

[DHK]

So, let me get this straight. You think your generation sent out more missionaries than mine?

Is that right?

I think my generation is a mess. But I think yours was FAR, FAR, FAR worse.

Your 38 years old???
And you don't know the answer to that question?

 

[Luke2427]

Your 38 years old???
And you don't know the answer to that question?

I'm asking if YOU know it.

Your claim is that my generation talks a big talk and does not do mission work.

So I want to know if you think your generation sent out more missionaries than mine?

What do you think?

 

[DHK]

I'm asking if YOU know it.

Your claim is that my generation talks a big talk and does not do mission work.

So I want to know if you think your generation sent out more missionaries than mine?

What do you think?

Yes I do. Simple math dictates it.
I am a missionary and am still doing missionary work.
There are many in my position; sent out from the last generation and still continuing on.
However from the more recent generation fewer are being sent out all the time. It is a curse of our generation that many are retiring and no one is available to take their place. The availability of missionaries is scarce. I know that from experience. Furthermore, the greatest percentage of missionaries are single woman missionaries restricted in their ministries. IOW, they can't be church planters where that ministry is badly needed.

 

[saturneptune]

Your main error is in the presumption that any human individual, generation or collective, Christian or non-, can sustain the church. Your lessons will come in the form of your illusions meeting reality. You will learn what it means to be broken. That's assuming, of course, that God has anything to do with you.

Give you younger ones a chance? To do what? Fail? Okay. :type:

To find the true meaning of life, you must travel to a remote mountain in Nepal. At the base of the mountain, you will be given specific instructions as to how to get to the top. After a long and challenging climb you will finally make it to the top. As the peak, you will find a peppermint stick. Sit on it and rotate.

 

[Luke2427]

Yes I do. Simple math dictates it.
I am a missionary and am still doing missionary work.
There are many in my position; sent out from the last generation and still continuing on.
However from the more recent generation fewer are being sent out all the time. It is a curse of our generation that many are retiring and no one is available to take their place. The availability of missionaries is scarce. I know that from experience. Furthermore, the greatest percentage of missionaries are single woman missionaries restricted in their ministries. IOW, they can't be church planters where that ministry is badly needed.

Alright. I'm fixing to do the research. So I want to be sure that you stand by your claim here.

You think that more missionaries were sent out in the 60's and 70's, the primary decades in question here, than say, the 80's and 90's right?

That's your contention, right?

 

[DHK]

Alright. I'm fixing to do the research. So I want to be sure that you stand by your claim here.

You think that more missionaries were sent out in the 60's and 70's, the primary decades in question here, than say, the 80's and 90's right?

That's your contention, right?

If you are taking into consideration education, and preparation, etc., I think that missionaries sent out in the 70's to mid 80's might be more appropriate.

 

[saturneptune]

God uses everything, even the wrath of man to praise Him. But the wrath of man does not work the righteousness of God. My statement is not about what God can accomplish, but about what you can accomplish.

Your arrogance shows through very clearly. We can accomplish nothing without the Lord. Believe it or not, your posts are not inspired.

Your posts are eminent indicators. They do not reveal one moved to prayer for the ones against which you rant. They do not reveal one wanting to strengthen the feedble knees, or lift the hands that hang down. They reveal one breathing railing accusations. Something the angels dare not even do.

You have no idea what his motives for prayer are. Rants as you call them do not indicate sincerity of a prayer, or is that one of your divine decrees? You have no idea what postition or mindset this person is in when praying to the Lord, and despite your high opinion of yourself, you have no idea what angels dare or do not dare to do

Like I said, if God has anything to do with you, you'll learn, but judging from your posts, you won't learn from the admonition of seven men who can render an answer, you'll learn from experience. And as the old idiom cited by Calvin says, Experience is the teacher of fools.

Yes, that is great. Of all the historical figures you could have picked to quote, you use one that is about as Christ like as a hat rack, and has about as many fruits of the Holy Spirit as a vegetable salad. Come back when you have a coherent post.

 

[Thousand Hills]

Yes I do. Simple math dictates it.
I am a missionary and am still doing missionary work.
There are many in my position; sent out from the last generation and still continuing on.
However from the more recent generation fewer are being sent out all the time. It is a curse of our generation that many are retiring and no one is available to take their place. The availability of missionaries is scarce. I know that from experience. Furthermore, the greatest percentage of missionaries are single woman missionaries restricted in their ministries. IOW, they can't be church planters where that ministry is badly needed.

I think a lot of what is going on in this thread is what Dave Ramsey likes to refer to as the "Powdered Butt Syndrome", you know where folks don't like to take advice from someone for who they once changed diapers.

Anyways, I'm around Luke's age, and while I don't agree with him 100%, In my opinion I do see some of his points. Namely, it is hard to disagree with the facts he pointed out about changes in society in the 60's and 70's (divorce, abortion, prayer in schools etc.).

Just a few observations from my perspective for what its worth.

(1) The quote above from DHK mentions the lack of missionaries, etc. If this generation is failing it may be due to the lack of cultivation of talents by the older generation. We've become more concerned about having kids perform well on the ball field then nurturing them to be pleasing to the Lord. The curse of prosperity has raised expectations that you must be a doctor, lawyer, whatever - a calling to the ministry is not seen as honorable. I live in the bible belt, and only know of 3 guys that I grew up with that are now serving as pastors. I never went to the same church as any of them but knew them from school. I know of no one I grew up with that is serving as a missionary.

(2) The church I currently attend is comprised by a majority of senior adults 60+. I've seen a lot of politicing and pettyness in the short time I've been there. I recently had the opportunity to serve on a Pastor Search Committee (that's a whole nother story). We had a particular candidate send in a very detailed resume with a detailed Q & A covering both scriptural and societal issues, he also had ties to a local high school and could probably have been effective in reaching young people and families there (a great need for our church). However, the statement from the chairman of the PSC about this candidate was that he was too "deep".

I'm positive that alot of you folks that spend time reading and posting on this board have done a lot for the kingdom, and I appreciate that. However, it is a biblical mandate that the older generation is responsible for guiding the younger generation.

Titus 2:1-8 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

Just from my point of view, in the churches I have attended I have seen very little to none of this. Business as usual, with very little passion. My hope is that I've just had bad experiences and this is not the case in most bible believing churches.

 

[Aaron]

See, you don't know your Bible.

That's Jude and he is talking about railing accusations AGAINST SATAN- not period, just against Satan.

But chiefly them that walk after the flesh in the lust of uncleanness, and despise government. Presumptuous are they, selfwilled, they are not afraid to speak evil of dignities. Whereas angels, which are greater in power and might, bring not railing accusation against them before the Lord. 2 Peter 2:10-11.

Presumption is your middle name, but if you're Christ's you'll get a new one, and you'll think back to my post.

'Bye now. :type:

 

[Aaron]

To find the true meaning of life, you must travel to a remote mountain in Nepal. At the base of the mountain, you will be given specific instructions as to how to get to the top. After a long and challenging climb you will finally make it to the top. As the peak, you will find a peppermint stick. Sit on it and rotate.

Sure, take all the fun out of farting! :laugh: What fun is there in a minty-fresh fart?

 

[Benjamin]

I think my generation is a mess. But I think yours was FAR, FAR, FAR worse.

Luke, I wondering if you have ANY IDEA what some in the next generation is going think about yours/ours??? Do you ever consider that habitual practice, such as how one argues, forms one's disposition and BUDDY if you keep up in your ways you are going to be considered one of the most orneriest, obnoxious and most unpleasant loners to ever exist in the nursing home. :laugh:

Just wait until your children become middle and late teens and not only give you back some of your own ATTITUDE but become very experienced in it and know EXCACTLY how to personally DEAL with your naivety and short comings!

You have a lot of humility yet to learn there, ...JUNIOR!

 

[Alive in Christ]

If you were an adult in the early sixties to late seventies, you should know that your generation LOST this nation.

The way you did church FAILED.

Now that does not apply to EVERY SINGLE church and Christian of that generation, but it does apply to the generation by and large.

It's time for you to take responsibility and to pass the torch and let the younger generation get started cleaning up the mess you left us.

I know that's going to make some of you angry, but it may be the fact that you GET angry over this rebuke that is INDICATIVE of the problem within you that CAUSED you to be the failure you have been.

You inherited a largely Christian nation and you left to us a largely APOSTATE nation.

You failed. Admit it and get out of our way.

Calvinism's resurgence in the last decade is CERTAINLY not the problem.

Christian contemporary music, though I dislike MOST of it, is not the problem.

The problem with this nation is not the homosexuals or the liberals and democrats- it is YOU. Judgment begins at the house of God. YOU are the problem.

Fundamentalists in that era became weird isolationists, almost cultic in nature failing miserably in the fulfillment of the great commission.

Academics in that area became theologically liberal.

And the few who did not go to either extreme did tremendously well with what they had. W. A. Criswell, Adrian Rogers, D. James Kennedy and others CONDEMNED their "Christian" generation and rightly so- because those few had to carry the torch to us with little help from MOST of the Christian adults of their era.

Now it is time for you to admit your failure, humble yourselves and be willing to acknowledge that the ideals you promoted should rapidly be replaced with fresh biblical ideas.

When we younger folks hear you talk about Still Standing for the Old Paths, we cringe. Because we know that you know very little about the Old Paths. What you mean by Old Paths is what you liked when you were a kid.

You are not trying to preserve the Old Biblical Paths- you are trying to preserve a culture THAT LOST THIS NATION.

Stop. Let it die. It needs to. Pass the torch that you have let dwindle to a faint flicker before it goes out altogether.

Thanks.

Nonsense. Abject failure. You get a grade of F-. The entire class is dumber having read it. You will sit in the corner until lunch time. :wavey:

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

To find the true meaning of life, you must travel to a remote mountain in Nepal. At the base of the mountain, you will be given specific instructions as to how to get to the top. After a long and challenging climb you will finally make it to the top. As the peak, you will find a peppermint stick. Sit on it and rotate.

Boy, thats got my "Go jump in a lake" beat all to heck! :laugh:

 

[Winman]

Luke, I wondering if you have ANY IDEA what some in the next generation is going think about yours/ours??? Do you ever consider that habitual practice, such as how one argues, forms one's disposition and BUDDY if you keep up in your ways you are going to be considered one of the most orneriest, obnoxious and most unpleasant loners to ever exist in the nursing home. :laugh:

Just wait until your children become middle and late teens and not only give you back some of your own ATTITUDE but become very experienced in it and know EXCACTLY how to personally DEAL with your naivety and short comings!

You have a lot of humility yet to learn there, ...JUNIOR!

I think he's just mad because they will only let him teach kids at his church. He wants to be the senior pastor but it AIN'T gonna happen.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Just a few observations from my perspective for what its worth.

(1) The quote above from DHK mentions the lack of missionaries, etc. If this generation is failing it may be due to the lack of cultivation of talents by the older generation. We've become more concerned about having kids perform well on the ball field then nurturing them to be pleasing to the Lord. The curse of prosperity has raised expectations that you must be a doctor, lawyer, whatever - a calling to the ministry is not seen as honorable. I live in the bible belt, and only know of 3 guys that I grew up with that are now serving as pastors. I never went to the same church as any of them but knew them from school. I know of no one I grew up with that is serving as a missionary.

(2) The church I currently attend is comprised by a majority of senior adults 60+. I've seen a lot of politicing and pettyness in the short time I've been there. I recently had the opportunity to serve on a Pastor Search Committee (that's a whole nother story). We had a particular candidate send in a very detailed resume with a detailed Q & A covering both scriptural and societal issues, he also had ties to a local high school and could probably have been effective in reaching young people and families there (a great need for our church). However, the statement from the chairman of the PSC about this candidate was that he was too "deep".

I'm positive that alot of you folks that spend time reading and posting on this board have done a lot for the kingdom, and I appreciate that. However, it is a biblical mandate that the older generation is responsible for guiding the younger generation.

Titus 2:1-8 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:2 That the aged men be sober, grave, temperate, sound in faith, in charity, in patience.3 The aged women likewise, that they be in behaviour as becometh holiness, not false accusers, not given to much wine, teachers of good things;4 That they may teach the young women to be sober, to love their husbands, to love their children,5 To be discreet, chaste, keepers at home, good, obedient to their own husbands, that the word of God be not blasphemed.6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded.7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity,8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

Just from my point of view, in the churches I have attended I have seen very little to none of this. Business as usual, with very little passion. My hope is that I've just had bad experiences and this is not the case in most bible believing churches.

I think many of the older generation have "written off" the younger generation because they are so different. I am in my mid-50's but I see a lot of potential in the younger generation. As a matter of fact, I just started working in a ministry in a college to reach that generation, after having worked with young folks in college for four years.

By the grace and gift of God, I can look past what they are and do now to see what they can become, but many older folks are not willing to do that. they cannot look past the tattoos, the multi-colored hair, the music, the dress, the liberal social beliefs...

In my humble opinion, if the Lord tarries, the next generation is the one that will have a world-wide impact for the Kingdom of God and the Gospel. That is what I am working toward, and that is my prayer.

 

[Skandelon]

Does anyone else find it ironic that the author of this OP is a hard determinist....thus for all practical purposes his indictment is of God, not a generation of people.