genocide as commanded by God?

[The Scribe]

Monster in whose opinon? yours? Not a very high opinon of our God is it?
What God does is just and right, with no worng. We can not question just becasue we do not have the thoughts of God and know whay He does the things He does. He says, My thoughts are not your thoughts, My ways are not your ways. Just becasue we do not understand does not mean God is a monster.

Exactly, only the ignorant would call God a monster.

God's judgments are final and just. There's no need to question his actions.

1 Corinthians 14:38 (KJV)
But if any man be ignorant, let him be ignorant.

 

[gekko]

What God does is just and right, with no worng.

then tell me why it seems God is going against his own morals in the O.T.
please i'd like to know donnA. scribe.

 

[The Scribe]

then tell me why it seems God is going against his own morals in the O.T.
please i'd like to know donnA. scribe.

Isaiah 55:8-9 (KJV)
8: For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9: For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

We maybe made in the image of God, but we will never have the mind of God.

He's higher than us and created everything. God is our judge.

We don't have any right to question his authority or judgments.

 

[Alcott]

What God does is just and right, with no worng.

Because no one can do anything about what he does. Like some in power have tried to ascribe to themselves... some popes, James I and Charles I [the "divine right of kings'], Stalin,...

When it comes right down to it, it's that simple... God can order a nation-- men, women, children, animals-- to be slaughtered as a 'final solution.' And it ain't evil if he says it ain't. Tough luck for those kids bleeding and crying; they were born to the wrong parents.

 

[BobRyan]

Not true.

"God is not willing for ANY to perish" 2Peter 3.

"God sends his Holy Spirit to CONVICT THE WORLD of sin and righteousness and judgment" John 16.

"Behold I stand at the door and knock if ANYONE hears my voice AND OPENS the door I will come in" Rev 3.

"He is the light that coming into the world enlightens EVERY man" John 1:5-9

Even in the case of infants destroyed in the flood - it is not a certainly that they are also not saved.

 

[Matt Black]

Monster in whose opinon? yours? Not a very high opinon of our God is it?

Exactly - which is why the literal interpretation can't be right.

What God does is just and right, with no worng.

Agreed - which is why He would be incapable of ordering the murder of infants.

We can not question just becasue we do not have the thoughts of God and know whay He does the things He does. He says, My thoughts are not your thoughts, My ways are not your ways. Just becasue we do not understand does not mean God is a monster.

Please explain how incitement to murder is not monstrous.

 

[Matt Black]

My answer posted in #26 clearly answers your objection.

In what way? You said @ #26:

After the flood God set up a dispensation of government. Then he set up a dispensation of Law. Even after Christ came there was still law that Christ put himself under as noted in the statement "Give unto Caesar that which is Caesar's and unto God that which is God's."

God does not murder. He allows for justice. In this day and age he has set up courts through which justice, and not vengeance takes place. "Vengeance is mine saith the Lord, I will repay." Thus God would never command you to take vengeance on any person, as you seemed to suggest. He does not act contrary to His Word or to His nature. At the same time one cannot put God in a box and tell God: "God you cannot do this because..." That is what I got out of your first post.

God did call for the Israelites to go and kill the citizens of Jericho, all the Canannites, and others. That was a different time and for a different reason. He used the nation of Israel to be his instrument of justice at that time.

Today he uses governments to be an instrument of justice according to Romans 13:1-4, not nations to bully the world, or individuals to take vengeance on their neighbor.

All I see here is a tawdry piece of moral relativism, not a viable answer.

 

[Matt Black]

Exactly, only the ignorant would call God a monster.

And only the immoral would call evil good.

<Sigh> Let me try to spell this out step by step:

1. God said "Thou shalt not commit murder"

2. Killing children and babies (inside or outside the womb) is murder. Period. I don't think you'll find anyone who'd disagree with that unless they were 'pro-choice' abortionists.

3. God cannot contradict Himself; that is one of His immutable attributes

4. Ordering the killing of infants is ordering their murder (per #2 above), which is in direct contradiction of #1 above.

5. Therefore, God cannot have ordered it. No way. Not in a million years. God cannot be an accessory or inciter to murder; it is against His very nature.

 

[The Scribe]

And only the immoral would call evil good.

<Sigh> Let me try to spell this out step by step:

1. God said "Thou shalt not commit murder"

2. Killing children and babies (inside or outside the womb) is murder. Period. I don't think you'll find anyone who'd disagree with that unless they were 'pro-choice' abortionists.

3. God cannot contradict Himself; that is one of His immutable attributes

4. Ordering the killing of infants is ordering their murder (per #2 above), which is in direct contradiction of #1 above.

5. Therefore, God cannot have ordered it. No way. Not in a million years. God cannot be an accessory or inciter to murder; it is against His very nature.

Reread Isaiah 55:8-9, God has the right to judge as he will.

Even if that means killing the entire population of a city, like God did with Sodom and Gomorrah.

 

[DHK]

Reread Isaiah 55:8-9, God has the right to judge as he will.

Even if that means killing the entire population of a city, like God did with Sodom and Gomorrah.

Have you set yourself up as ruler and judge over God.
God may judge as He will and has the perfect right to do so.

Romans 11:33-36 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

 

[The Scribe]

Have you set yourself up as ruler and judge over God.
God may judge as He will and has the perfect right to do so.

Romans 11:33-36 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out! For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor? Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again? For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.

That's what I said. God can do as he wishes. We don't have the right to question God's judgments.

 

[Alcott]

"God is not willing for ANY to perish" 2Peter 3.

Yes or No : Was God willing that the Amalekytes perish?

 

[Matt Black]

I reiterate: God does not do anything which contradicts His nature. That's not 'judging' Him; it's simply stating an obvious fact

 

[DHK]

I reiterate: God does not do anything which contradicts His nature. That's not 'judging' Him; it's simply stating an obvious fact

Judgment is an attribute of God's nature.
So is justice.
His ways are not our ways; His thoughts are not our thoughts.
How can a finite man understand an infinite God? We cannot.

Abraham said:
Shall not the Judge of all the earth do right?

 

[Matt Black]

The judge of the earth shall indeed do right. Murdering children and babies is not right and therefore He would not order that.

Evil is not one of God's attributes, neither is sin. Murdering children is both evil and sinful and therefore He would not order that.

 

[donnA]

The judge of the earth shall indeed do right. Murdering children and babies is not right and therefore He would not order that.

Evil is not one of God's attributes, neither is sin. Murdering children is both evil and sinful and therefore He would not order that.

How do you account for the fact the bible says God did. If He didn't then the bible is a lie.
We judge this to be evil by human standards, God is not bound by our standards.

 

[Matt Black]

God is however bound by His own standards - I refer you again to "Thou shalt not commit murder".

This doesn't mean that the Bible is a 'lie' as you polemically put it, just that the 'genocidal' portions are not meant to be interpreted literally, that's all. It seems pretty clear to me.

 

[gekko]

Isaiah 55:8-9 (KJV)
8: For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
9: For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.

We maybe made in the image of God, but we will never have the mind of God.

He's higher than us and created everything. God is our judge.

We don't have any right to question his authority or judgments.

and to any related response of "our thoughts are not God's thoughts" etc etc.
- all a nicely elaborated almost gift-wrapped stereotypical sunday school answer.

come up with something unbiased.

------

our standards are not God's standards of course.
our standards should be God's standards.

like matt has been saying - God doesn't disagree with himself - he is not a hypocrite.

"how can a finite man understand an infinite God" you say?

how is this information so hard to understand?

holding God to his own standard. God doesn't have the right to tell me to kill you if you don't pose a threat to me any more than he has a right to tell me I can sleep with your wife. So, by default of having commanded the deaths of persons A through Z, we logically conclude that persons A through Z would have posed a physical threat, God in his foreknowledge effectively called for a preemptive strike, and the comprehensive slaughter of the aforementioned was a legitimate act of self defense. [EDIT: and i'll add to this -- it would have seemed a legitimate act of self defense from the point of view of the israelites as well.]

God bless

 

[DHK]

God is however bound by His own standards - I refer you again to "Thou shalt not commit murder".

This doesn't mean that the Bible is a 'lie' as you polemically put it, just that the 'genocidal' portions are not meant to be interpreted literally, that's all. It seems pretty clear to me.

You are assuming yourself to be God.
You don't know what God's standards are.
He is perfect in all that He does. What seems like murder to you is not murder to him, but perhaps either mercy or justice. In the case of infants it may be mercy--taking them to heaven; in the case of adults, judgement.

Why did he send such a devastating tsunami that wiped out a good part of the population of Indonesia? Is He a cruel and malicious God, or was it part of His attributes of both justice and mercy?

Why not wait til heaven and you can ask him and get a better understanding of the things that you cannot understand now.

"The secret things belong unto the Lord."

 

[gekko]

You don't know what God's standards are.

we have a pretty good idea when we read what His word..

Why did he send such a devastating tsunami that wiped out a good part of the population of Indonesia?

who's to say God sent it?

you assume too much about God as well.