Genuine Salvation is Forever

[37818]

Then there is the Hypercalvinists LOL. Makes you think that the Reformers are badly in need of a new reformation. ‘Reformation 2’

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I do not believe in "Lordship" salvation. Matthew 7:21-23. Rather in the Lord who is Christ. 2 John 1:9.

I did not say you did. Now can you answer my simple question?

what is Sonship? And then what is discipleship?

lastly, What’s the difference between the two?

you don’t have to answer if you choose not to.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Yes, did you understand what I said in # 149. You have read enough of my posts that I do not think your question was really necessary. Or perhaps you did not understand what I have written before. But either way the answer is I trust what the bible says.

Of course you do… further I’m sure you trust in the Holy Ghost, correct.

 

[Silverhair]

Of course you do… further I’m sure you trust in the Holy Ghost, correct.

He is the one you inspired those that penned the bible so that would indicate that I trust Him.

 

[37818]

I did not say you did.

I didn't understand the the direction of you comment.

Now can you answer my simple question?

what is Sonship? And then what is discipleship?

Discipleship begins with Sonship. John 13:35 and 1 John 3:23.

lastly, What’s the difference between the two?

Sonship is being a saved believer. Discipleship is learning to follow Christ's teachings.

 

[MrW]

No problem.

I see problems with the OSAS doctrine, in practice, because it can and does hive assurance where there should be none. That said I believe it true in what it presents, just incomplete.

The Calvinistic position is based on Calvin's Atonement and is more problematic than OSAS (they are not the same).

My friends and family who are free will Baptists hold a view similar to yours. I disagree with that position but in the end we are at the same place (those lacking faith are lost).

So if you get caught spending counterfeit money you thought was real does that mean my government printed money is fake too because your counterfeit gave you false assurance? Shouldn’t you have checked it to make sure? [emoji57]

We are responsible to make our calling and election sure.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

I didn't understand the the direction of you comment.

Discipleship begins with Sonship. John 13:35 and 1 John 3:23.

Sonship is being a saved believer. Discipleship is learning to follow Christ's teachings.

OK… I see Sonship as having happened before the foundation of the world and culminating in the regeneration process… thereby making the participants children of God.

discipleship however takes a conscious choice to follow Christ. For example: Matthew 19:16-22

in this example, the rich young man would have to give up all his worldly possessions… so did he, absolutely no, no he did not. So was this man in Sonship with God… I would say yes but he was torn… he could not commit. As for Peter, allow me to paraphrase, “Lord where are we to go, it is you who are Messiah” therefore they were committed, but even then as we learn, Peter denied him 3 times and Thomas denied His resurrection. So if I may conclude… conversion, discipleship, etc takes humans time and grace to commit … they might even backslide. But with his guidance we realize our destiny in heaven… what incredible patience, what mercy, what saving grace… and what love.

 

[MrW]

so the Book of Hebrews is not for ALL who believe in Jesus Christ, and ONLY for the Jews who converted? This is complete rubbish!

All the Bible was written FOR us but not all the Bible is written TO us.

I am quite sure you don’t sacrifice goats nor lambs to God.

 

[37818]

I see Sonship as having happened before the foundation of the world and culminating in the regeneration process… thereby making the participants children of God.

We understand this differently since I understand sonship and being children of God to be the same thing.

 

[SavedByGrace]

All the Bible was written FOR us but not all the Bible is written TO us.

I am quite sure you don’t sacrifice goats nor lambs to God.

Strawman argument

Anything to do with the sacrifices is obviously done away with. Everything else applies to us all in the Book of Hebrews

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

We understand this differently since I understand sonship and being children of God to be the same thing.

Correct and that is a constant… it’s also can being the elect but to me that sounds elitist, don’t you agree.

 

[MrW]

Strawman argument

Anything to do with the sacrifices is obviously done away with. Everything else applies to us all in the Book of Hebrews

Not a strawman. And no, I am not a Hebrew, hesitating on believing if the Lord Jesus is or is not the Messiah. There are applicable things in Hebrews but must be understood in context. For example,

Hebrews 10:26 (KJV)
“For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins” does not mean we can’t be forgiven for sins after salvation. It means there are no longer any sacrifices for sins acceptable under the old law given to Moses. That system has been done away with by God, yet Jews were continuing to do them.

I never lived under that system, so that is written for me to know, but it wasn’t written to me to instruct me to leave that sacrificial system. As a Gentile, I was never under it.

 

[Silverhair]

I have not exhausted all the Biblical arguments.

I missed this post so I will respond to it now. I understand that you think you have good biblical arguments for your view. Yes God gives eternal life to those that believe but that is the condition, belief. When a person walks away from God he gives up his eternal life.

 

[JonC]

Thread closed due to length