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George Washington, Christian
- Thread starter LadyEagle
- Start date
T
TexasSky
Guest
*Sigh* Apparently a LOT of historians disagree with you regarding whether or not Nelly lived with him or not.
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The letter was written by Nelly Custis Lewis in 1833.
George Washington's Beautiful Nelly
The Letters of Eleanor Parke Custis to Elizabeth Bordley Gibson, 1794–1851
Eleanor "Nellie" Parke Custis Lewis was the daughter of Martha Washington's son from her previous marriage. Her son, John Parke Custis, was killed in the Revolutionary War in 1781. Eleanor and her brother, George, were adopted by General Washington and lived at Mount Vernon until Martha Washington's death in 1802. Eleanor was a favorite of both General Washington and Martha.
http://www.presidentschildren.com/list.htm#1
Eleanor "Nelly" Custis Lewis
Born in 1779, she was raised as a daughter by the Washingtons although never formally adopted. She married a Washington nephew, died 1852 and is buried at Mt. Vernon.
http://www.mountvernon.org/virtualnonflash/02_custis.cfm
This gracious room was used by Martha Washington's granddaughter, Nelly Custis, who lived at Mount Vernon with the Washingtons from early childhood.
http://famous.adoption.com/famous/custis-george-washington-parke.html
after Jacky was himself killed at the Battle of Yorktown (1781), George and Martha adopted his six children (that is, Martha's grandchildren), including young George Washington Parke and Nelly Custis in 1783.
http://www.megaone.com/csa/G2/160.htm
Nelly's grandmother and adoptive mother, Martha, began her household tasks at dawn, followed by an hour in prayer and Bible reading. The children were required to be on time at all meals, where the blessing was asked by Gen. Washington before the meal, and thanks were returned after the meal. Every Sunday the Washingtons were found faithfully attending worship services and listening carefully to the sermon. Brought up as a devout Episcopalian, Nelly was a genuine Christian who frequently expressed a "proper sense of my obligations to the giver of all good, for his unmerited favours." "honor thy father and thy mother" most fully epitomized the life of Nelly Custis.
Jared Sparks was the source for the letter from Nelly Custis. (The Writings of George Washington, Jared Sparks, editor (Boston: Ferdinand Andrews, Publisher, 1838), Vol. XII, pp. 399-411. )
-------------
The letter was written by Nelly Custis Lewis in 1833.
George Washington's Beautiful Nelly
The Letters of Eleanor Parke Custis to Elizabeth Bordley Gibson, 1794–1851
Eleanor "Nellie" Parke Custis Lewis was the daughter of Martha Washington's son from her previous marriage. Her son, John Parke Custis, was killed in the Revolutionary War in 1781. Eleanor and her brother, George, were adopted by General Washington and lived at Mount Vernon until Martha Washington's death in 1802. Eleanor was a favorite of both General Washington and Martha.
http://www.presidentschildren.com/list.htm#1
Eleanor "Nelly" Custis Lewis
Born in 1779, she was raised as a daughter by the Washingtons although never formally adopted. She married a Washington nephew, died 1852 and is buried at Mt. Vernon.
http://www.mountvernon.org/virtualnonflash/02_custis.cfm
This gracious room was used by Martha Washington's granddaughter, Nelly Custis, who lived at Mount Vernon with the Washingtons from early childhood.
http://famous.adoption.com/famous/custis-george-washington-parke.html
after Jacky was himself killed at the Battle of Yorktown (1781), George and Martha adopted his six children (that is, Martha's grandchildren), including young George Washington Parke and Nelly Custis in 1783.
http://www.megaone.com/csa/G2/160.htm
Nelly's grandmother and adoptive mother, Martha, began her household tasks at dawn, followed by an hour in prayer and Bible reading. The children were required to be on time at all meals, where the blessing was asked by Gen. Washington before the meal, and thanks were returned after the meal. Every Sunday the Washingtons were found faithfully attending worship services and listening carefully to the sermon. Brought up as a devout Episcopalian, Nelly was a genuine Christian who frequently expressed a "proper sense of my obligations to the giver of all good, for his unmerited favours." "honor thy father and thy mother" most fully epitomized the life of Nelly Custis.
Jared Sparks was the source for the letter from Nelly Custis. (The Writings of George Washington, Jared Sparks, editor (Boston: Ferdinand Andrews, Publisher, 1838), Vol. XII, pp. 399-411. )
T
TexasSky
Guest
C4K,
I disagree.
I believe that John's history is flawed, and I believe that the quotes attributed to Washington in regards to Christ are indeed Washington's, and I believe that the testimony of the child he raised testify to that.
I disagree.
I believe that John's history is flawed, and I believe that the quotes attributed to Washington in regards to Christ are indeed Washington's, and I believe that the testimony of the child he raised testify to that.
Huh? I never said Nelly Custis-Lewis didn't live with the Washington's In fact, I said that she DID live with them. However, she lived with them during yer younger years, when GW was a plantation farmer, and a wealthy one at that. She did not live with them during GW's service as President.Originally posted by TexasSky:
*Sigh* Apparently a LOT of historians disagree with you regarding whether or not Nelly lived with him or not.
Kindly stop putting words in my mouth. Perhaps if you could address the issues brought up, rather than artificially create some, that would be of help.
The Washington Prayer Book was not Washington's. That's a historical fact. Check with the National Archives, the Library of Congress, and the Smithsonian Institute. This is not a matter of opinion. This is a matter of fact.Originally posted by TexasSky:
I believe that John's history is flawed, and I believe that the quotes attributed to Washington in regards to Christ are indeed Washington's, and I believe that the testimony of the child he raised testify to that.
Further, the letter of Washington's granddaughter do not testify that he was definitely a Christian. They testify that he probably was a Christian. Read it for yourself. It's also a matter of fact.
T
TexasSky
Guest
John,
Excuse me. Your "SHE DID NOT LIVE WITH HIM," jumped out at me far more than "when he was a plantation farmer".
However - that said, what difference does WHEN she lived with him make in regards to whether or not she had reason to believe he was a Christian?
He FOUNDED churches that preached the gospel of Christ. The child he raised said that it was as wrong to question his Christianity as it was to question his patrotism. Why isn't that enough for you?
How do you, or anyone else, know he never spoke up for Christ? Historians writing about someone's war record don't usually write down the person's believe statements.
I know for a FACT that George H. Bush is a professing Christian because I had the opportunity to discuss Christ with him, but you won't find many quotes from him about that - NOT because he didn't speak up, but because history didn't record it.
Excuse me. Your "SHE DID NOT LIVE WITH HIM," jumped out at me far more than "when he was a plantation farmer".
However - that said, what difference does WHEN she lived with him make in regards to whether or not she had reason to believe he was a Christian?
He FOUNDED churches that preached the gospel of Christ. The child he raised said that it was as wrong to question his Christianity as it was to question his patrotism. Why isn't that enough for you?
How do you, or anyone else, know he never spoke up for Christ? Historians writing about someone's war record don't usually write down the person's believe statements.
I know for a FACT that George H. Bush is a professing Christian because I had the opportunity to discuss Christ with him, but you won't find many quotes from him about that - NOT because he didn't speak up, but because history didn't record it.
T
TexasSky
Guest
John,
I don't believe it IS in error.
I did a websearch. I find absolutely NOTHING that is NOT from a athiest run sight (by labeling them that, they CLAIM to be athiest) which makes the claim you make - EXCEPT - one person asking if ANYONE can confirm that the book was indeed rejected by the Smithsonian, and the response posts links back to an athiest site.
I went to the Smithsonian and did a search for it, but came up with nothing. However - that means nothing. Items located in the Presidential Libraries across the nation come up negative on Smithsonian searches too. The Smithsonian may never have been offered the book, it might have had more than enough Washington information.
You said Nelly was his grandchild and indicated that I was wrong in referring to her as his adopted child. Yet, historians refer to her as his adopted child, while explaining that though there was no formal paperwork he raised her as if she were his daughter. Have you even acknowledged that?
You are right though. Until you produce some evidence from the Smithsonian, or from a reputable source that says the prayer book is a fake, I'm NOT going to call it a fake.
I will grant you, I found ONE reference from a reputable historian at the University of Virginia who said that the Smithsonian reported the book was not in Washington's handwriting, but said that the book was not labled a forgery because it contained the mark of the Washington Family Proveance and was accepted as having belonged to and been passed down by the Washington Family, and that it was actually presented as a reproduction of the original.
I don't believe it IS in error.
I did a websearch. I find absolutely NOTHING that is NOT from a athiest run sight (by labeling them that, they CLAIM to be athiest) which makes the claim you make - EXCEPT - one person asking if ANYONE can confirm that the book was indeed rejected by the Smithsonian, and the response posts links back to an athiest site.
I went to the Smithsonian and did a search for it, but came up with nothing. However - that means nothing. Items located in the Presidential Libraries across the nation come up negative on Smithsonian searches too. The Smithsonian may never have been offered the book, it might have had more than enough Washington information.
You said Nelly was his grandchild and indicated that I was wrong in referring to her as his adopted child. Yet, historians refer to her as his adopted child, while explaining that though there was no formal paperwork he raised her as if she were his daughter. Have you even acknowledged that?
You are right though. Until you produce some evidence from the Smithsonian, or from a reputable source that says the prayer book is a fake, I'm NOT going to call it a fake.
I will grant you, I found ONE reference from a reputable historian at the University of Virginia who said that the Smithsonian reported the book was not in Washington's handwriting, but said that the book was not labled a forgery because it contained the mark of the Washington Family Proveance and was accepted as having belonged to and been passed down by the Washington Family, and that it was actually presented as a reproduction of the original.
Originally posted by TexasSky:
... what difference does WHEN she lived with him make in regards to whether or not she had reason to believe he was a Christian?
History records that he was a devout Anglican in his younger years. That is indesputible. However evidence of him practicing any faith is lacking in his statesman years. I don't, and haven't, questioned the man's salvation. I've simply pointed out that the evidence in his later years is somewhat absent. Custis-Lewis opines that Washington was probably a Christian. I have no problem with this. However it is incorrect to say that evidence of the man's salvation or Christianity is abundant. It is not. Only evidence of his denominational affiliation when he was young.
He FOUNDED churches that preached the gospel of Christ.
Not exactly. He helped found the Pohick Anglican congregation. He wasn't exactly church-planting. Now, some will question whether the Anglican Church "preaches the Gospel of Christ", as the Church of England was not evangelical by any standard (I am not one of those persons, btw).
The child he raised said that it was as wrong to question his Christianity as it was to question his patrotism. Why isn't that enough for you?
Actually not. Read the letter. She said that as a child, it did not even occur to her to question his religions devition, as deminstrated by his reverent piety. Again, she was attesting to his religious observances in his younger days, not in his days as statesman.
How do you, or anyone else, know he never spoke up for Christ?
I don't. I know that, while he touches pon a belief in God, he never discussed Christianity or wrote about it. So don't get bent out of shape when I say that the evidence of his Christian faith is lacking. I'm not saying he wasn't or was. I'm simply saying the evidence is lacking. This is by no means an attack on the man's faith.
George H Bush has never made a public profession of faith. However, George W Bush has. GW Bush's Christian faith is indesputable.I know for a FACT that George H. Bush is a professing Christian because I had the opportunity to discuss Christ with him, but you won't find many quotes from him about that - NOT because he didn't speak up, but because history didn't record it.
Feel free to do some internet searching to find support for its authenticity. You'll find it to be quite lacking.Originally posted by TexasSky:
I don't believe it IS in error. I did a websearch. I find absolutely NOTHING that is NOT from a athiest run sight
Here is the web site to the Library of Congress - George Washington papers link:
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gwhtml/gwhome.html
Here is more about GW attending church:
http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/youasked/060.htm
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/gwhtml/gwhome.html
Here is more about GW attending church:
http://www.ushistory.org/valleyforge/youasked/060.htm
From George Washington's Prayer Journal (Published in 1919 - nearly 100 years ago, before revisionist history got a stronghold & please note - This was long before David Barton was born)
http://personal.pitnet.net/primarysources/george.htmlBut, O God, who art rich in mercy and plenteous in redemption, mark not, I beseech thee, what I have done amiss; remember that i am but dust, and remit my transgressions, negligences & ignorances, and cover them all with the absolute obedience of thy dear Son, that those sacrifices which I have offered may be accepted by thee, in and for the sacrifice of Jesus Christ offered upon the cross for me; for his sake, ease me of the burden of my sins, and give me grace that by the call of the Gospel I may rise from the slumber of sin into the newness of life.
The prayer journal in question was also found not that be in Washington's handwriting long before Barton was born. Yet Barton claims that the prayer book was written in Washington's own hand. In short, Barton is promoting a falsehood, yet again. In an attempt to fight off revisionist history, he himself is revising history. Sorry, but two wrongs don't make a right. The man's a liar. You can esteem him all you wish. He's stil a liar.Originally posted by LadyEagle:
From George Washington's Prayer Journal (Published in 1919 - nearly 100 years ago, before revisionist history got a stronghold & please note - This was long before David Barton was born)
As for your other links, those items are not in dispute. If you had taken the time to read my posts in full, you'd be aware of that.