Gift

[agedman]

Often one is told they must “reach out and take” the gift of salvation.

This might be true if such a gift were a Christmas present offered. But salvation is not made up of this world, nor of the things pertaining to this world.

The LIGHT is not material, but it is such as those it shines upon receive it desired or not. (John 1, 9The true Light who enlightens every man was coming into the world.”

Jesus came as the light of the world, to every person. Those who do not turn from the light but remain in the light, who in effect receive the light are as John states:

12But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to be children of God—to those believing in His name, 13who were born not of blood, nor of will of flesh, nor of will of man, but of God.​

Therefore, in the season, please take time to teach the proper aspects of “receive.” It is not as such a gift as one must reach out and take, but must respond is great fullness of the work of the Holy Spirit acknowledging Christ as their personal Savior, and following that light of life all their days.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Since the Bible is very clear, that the Gospel Message is an Invitation, it has to be "accepted" by the sinner.

The Invitation To Heaven

 

[1689Dave]

Often one is told they must “reach out and take” the gift of salvation.

This might be true if such a gift were a Christmas present offered. But salvation is not made up of this world, nor of the things pertaining to this world.

The LIGHT is not material, but it is such as those it shines upon receive it desired or not. (John 1, 9The true Light who enlightens every man was coming into the world.”

Jesus came as the light of the world, to every person. Those who do not turn from the light but remain in the light, who in effect receive the light are as John states:

12But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to be children of God—to those believing in His name, 13who were born not of blood, nor of will of flesh, nor of will of man, but of God.​

Therefore, in the season, please take time to teach the proper aspects of “receive.” It is not as such a gift as one must reach out and take, but must respond is great fullness of the work of the Holy Spirit acknowledging Christ as their personal Savior, and following that light of life all their days.

According to John, people "receive" Christ as they do a pat on the back. I received Christ, not of the will of the flesh, but of God.

 

[Revmitchell]

Often one is told they must “reach out and take” the gift of salvation.

This might be true if such a gift were a Christmas present offered. But salvation is not made up of this world, nor of the things pertaining to this world.

The LIGHT is not material, but it is such as those it shines upon receive it desired or not. (John 1, 9The true Light who enlightens every man was coming into the world.”

Jesus came as the light of the world, to every person. Those who do not turn from the light but remain in the light, who in effect receive the light are as John states:

12But as many as received Him, He gave to them authority to be children of God—to those believing in His name, 13who were born not of blood, nor of will of flesh, nor of will of man, but of God.​

Therefore, in the season, please take time to teach the proper aspects of “receive.” It is not as such a gift as one must reach out and take, but must respond is great fullness of the work of the Holy Spirit acknowledging Christ as their personal Savior, and following that light of life all their days.

The use of gift was used to communicate a truth and make it understandable. There is no sense of the word gift that could be understood as something imposed on an unexpecting recipient.

It is irrelevant that this gift is material or not. Even a spiritual gift can be offered with the intent to allow the potential recipient to receive it or not.

The real issue is, is that the way God did it? Distorting the meaning of gift doesn’t deal with this properly.

 

[1689Dave]

The use of gift was used to communicate a truth and make it understandable. There is no sense of the word gift that could be understood as something imposed on an unexpecting recipient.

It is irrelevant that this gift is material or not. Even a spiritual gift can be offered with the intent to allow the potential recipient to receive it or not.

The real issue is, is that the way God did it? Distorting the meaning of gift doesn’t deal with this properly.

How about the gift of life imposed on a dead person? The state you were in before God brought you to life according to scripture?

 

[Revmitchell]

How about the gift of life imposed on a dead person? The state you were in before God brought you to life according to scripture?

Dead like the prodigal not lazerus

 

[1689Dave]

Dead like the prodigal not lazerus

Spiritually dead.
“AND you were dead in your trespasses and sins, in which you formerly walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all formerly lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, even as the rest.” Ephesians 2:1–3 (NASB)

He resurrected your dead spirit and gave you life in Christ.

“And the LORD thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” Deuteronomy 30:6 (KJV 1900)

 

[Revmitchell]

Your response is not helpful. I agree with all of that. It’s your errant definition of spiritually dead which causes the divide.

 

[1689Dave]

Your response is not helpful. I agree with all of that. It’s your errant definition of spiritually dead which causes the divide.

DID Adam die spiritually the day he sinned, as God said? Or physically? We were born dead in Adam.

 

[Revmitchell]

DID Adam die spiritually the day he sinned, as God said? Or physically? We were born dead in Adam.

magazine I agree but not helpful. We both agree in spiritual death. Your definition of that is errant which causes the divide. I have not in any way denied spiritual death.

 

[1689Dave]

magazine I agree but not helpful. We both agree in spiritual death. Your definition of that is errant which causes the divide. I have not in any way denied spiritual death.

What can a dead person do to be saved when they cannot tell the true Christ from an idol of their imagination?

 

[Revmitchell]

What can a dead person do to be saved when they cannot tell the true Christ from an idol of their imagination?

Dead according to your definition can not respond to the gospel at all. Neither in a positive way but neither can he respond in a negative way. If dead is dead as you say then it is self defeating argument.

 

[1689Dave]

Dead according to your definition can not respond to the gospel at all. Neither in a positive way but neither can he respond in a negative way. If dead is dead as you say then it is self defeating argument.

Many respond but they don't hear it spiritually. And turn it into law with salvation based on obedience.

 

[Revmitchell]

Many respond but they don't hear it spiritually. And turn it into law with salvation based on obedience.

Oh look squirrel! Got to stay on topic. I know what you are doing here. You now want to insist I hold to a salvation by works. You found it difficult to support your errant definition of dead spiritually so you move to something else. I don’t mind addressing this works issue with you but I want to first conclude the discussion on dead without your abruptly running away from it.

 

[1689Dave]

Oh look squirrel! Got to stay on topic. I know what you are doing here. You now want to insist I hold to a salvation by works. You found it difficult to support your errant definition of dead spiritually so you move to something else. I don’t mind addressing this works issue with you but I want to first conclude the discussion on dead without your abruptly running away from it.

If God saves you before you respond it is grace. If he supposedly saves you after you respond it is works. Not that you and others are not saved.

 

[Revmitchell]

If God saves you before you respond it is grace. If he supposedly saves you after you respond it is works. Not that you and others are not saved.

ok I tried to keep the conversation on track. We were talking about spiritual death. You abruptly switched that to salvation by works. I pointed that out and suggested we first finish the other topic. You have ignored both. Since you are unable to deal with a true biblical definition of spiritual death and are unwilling to discuss that but only change topics when it suits you then this conversation is over.

 

[1689Dave]

ok I tried to keep the conversation on track. We were talking about spiritual death. You abruptly switched that to salvation by works. I pointed that out and suggested we first finish the other topic. You have ignored both. Since you are unable to deal with a true biblical definition of spiritual death and are unwilling to discuss that but only change topics when it suits you then this conversation is over.

Spiritual death does not allow for any salvation. So we are quite on track.

 

[agedman]

Was not the prodigal son a son? Certainly he squandered his inheritance, but he never lost his heritage as a son.

To compare the prodigal to one who becomes a believer does not track with receiving salvation, rather one who is a wayward believer coming to self realization and repenting. The rejoicing of the father, the robe, the feast, and the rebuke of the self righteousness of the other son are all part of the story not of redemption but of restoration.

 

[Revmitchell]

Was not the prodigal son a son? Certainly he squandered his inheritance, but he never lost his heritage as a son.

To compare the prodigal to one who becomes a believer does not track with receiving salvation, rather one who is a wayward believer coming to self realization and repenting. The rejoicing of the father, the robe, the feast, and the rebuke of the self righteousness of the other son are all part of the story not of redemption but of restoration.

and yet the father declared that He was dead. It is only with the errant reformed definition of spiritual death that this is a problem.

Biblically spiritual death means separated not inability.

 

[agedman]

and yet the father declared that He was dead. It is only with the errant reformed definition of spiritual death that this is a problem.

Biblically spiritual death means separated not inability.

I would agree that too often folks take these parables to an audience that is not the focus of the Lord's discussion.

These series of Parables in both Matthew and Luke are only for the believers for they may be Spiritually estranged from God by their own choosing, but they may never be removed as a son.

You do understand that the parables as found in Matthew or those in the midst Luke 15 of the prodigal, of the lost sheep and the lost coin all indicate ownership and heritage.

These parables are not appointed to those who are in unbelief, but to those who believe that they may know that ownership and heritage is not revocable.

These also demonstrate to the believer that when one who is a believer strays from the Father, they will be sought, they will be returned (return).

Unlike the unbelievers (the rocky/shallow soil in the parable of the sower) in which they are not pursued (sheep) and are not longed for (prodigal), and are not sought (coin) and are not harvested (sower).


This is all expressed when the Lord revisited the parables in Mathew 13:

“Because it has been granted to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of the heavens, but to them it has not been granted. 12For whoever has, to him will be given, and he will be in abundance. And whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken away from him.

13Because of this I speak to them in parables:

‘Because seeing they do not see,
and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.’

14And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Isaiah, saying:

‘In hearing you will hear and never understand;
and in seeing you will see and never perceive.

15For the heart of this people has grown dull,
and they barely hear with the ears,
and they have closed their eyes,
lest ever they should see with the eyes,
and they should hear with the ears,
and they should understand with the heart,
and should turn,
and I will heal them.’​

16But blessed are your eyes because they see, and your ears because they hear.
17For truly I say to you that many prophets and righteous men longed to see what you see, and did not see; and to hear what you hear, and did not hear.​