Gifts of the Spirit have ceased?????????

[SolaScriptura]

(1 Cor 14:37-38) "If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord. {38} But if anyone does not recognize this, he is not recognized."

Should those who reject the commandments in 1 Corinthians 14 be recognized? Certainly not, for the apostle declares plainly that he who will not recognize these is not recognized, thus signifying that GOD does not recognize this one, and if God recognizes not this person, how can the church of God? Whether it be of tongue speakers who interpret not or of women teachers, or whatever other commandment in this chapter that men willingly disobey, the apostle says he who does not recognize these commandments IS NOT recognized.

[ May 20, 2002, 03:57 AM: Message edited by: SolaScriptura ]

 

[Don]

Mr. Drake,

In no way is this statement meant to be facetious (sp?), but in all fairness, would you not want to help others if they were not in the right direction? To say you don't want to know the name of the church is to say that you aren't interested in the right-ness of others souls.

Perhaps you're correct. Sularis should get the name of the church, so he can go correct those people, shouldn't he?

Maybe I'm hearing wrong, it just seems that the entries on this board are defense to ones view point, doctrine or belief rather than efforts to assist in finding TRUE salvation.

Meaning...what? That TRUE salvation only comes from speaking in tongues? How about from casting out devils? Or taking up serpents? Or drinking poison? Those signs were also listed as the ones that would follow; do YOU do any of them?

TRUE salvation comes from a belief in God that goes beyond mere belief; it's the believing to the saving of the soul (Hebrews 10:39). To add to that, by saying that you must speak in tongues, is to add to God's own words about what is necessary for salvation.

To draw from your own limited examples, look at the jailer: What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Sir, I humbly submit that you have admitted to the same error that MEE, Brian, and Brian's pastor have: You've limited yourself to certain areas of the Bible, and are lacking in real biblical knowledge.

Stick around. Create an account for yourself. Perhaps, like Brian has, you'll learn something. And when you do, I humbly request that you ask yourself a question: Why did you learn it from a bunch of non-tongues-speaking Baptists instead of from your "tongue talkin, holy rollin, born again, liberated in the name of Jesus, power packed, One God believin, (and yes even foot washin!!!) child of the King" pastor?....

[ May 20, 2002, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: Don ]

 

[Clint Kritzer]

Page 9 warning, folks. I'll close it at page 10. Please offer your final thoughts in the meantime.

Clint Kritzer
Moderator

 

[ONENESS]

Don,

Let me tell you what happened, it was so funny. Saterday night we have prayer meetings, and we pray for about 45 minutes and then Pastor calls us up to the front so we can close. During his closeing he made the statement that he had been on the email all day long writeing back and forth to someone. So I get a pretty big hunch of who he is talking about. So he closes and we all go out to eat. I was talking to some friends of mine and let them in on a little bit of what Pastor Marshburn was talking about. I told them I was not certain but figured it had to be you that he was talking about. So i filled them in on what we had been discussing here on the board.

Well the night goes by and Sunday morning rolls around and we had just sat down and he goes on to say how "You know yesteday I was on the internet conversateing back and forth with this one gentleman, And who ever gave Don my email address please see me after service" And I was in the front and I could not help but to laugh, and he points at me and says "Hes got guilty written all over him" I swear that was so funny.

YOu really have to know him and understand what kind of man he is. He is really a prankster, but man if you could hear it you would have cryed it was so funny.

Well anyway got an eye exam. ttyl

Brian

 

[MEE]

To draw from your own limited examples, look at the jailer: What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Sir, I humbly submit that you have admitted to the same error that MEE, Brian, and Brian's pastor have: You've limited yourself to certain areas of the Bible, and are lacking in real biblical knowledge.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It seems that everyone likes to refer to the 'jailor' in Acts 16: 30-33. If you will look at it and continue on with verse 32, you will see that Paul said, "And they spake unto him (jailor) the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Now if Paul preached repentance, being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, why wouldn't he tell the jailor and his household the same?

As far as Brian, his Pastor, or myself lacking in any Biblical knowledge or as to admitting to such, better think again!

Most Christians have come to repentance, but that is where they seem to stop. Evidently from the erroneous historical teaching of man.

If a person was traveling and took the wrong route and someone was kind enough to show them the correct way, would some of you be so stubborn as to ignore him/her or look to see if they were going in the right direction?

None of us are trying to take away or to add to what you have...just trying to show a salvational issue, just as Paul did with King Agrippa. Acts 26:28-29)
28) Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
29) And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.

Think about it!

Personally, I think it was kind of Brian's Pastor to respond. Also, Brian you can tell him I said "Thanks."

Carol

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by MEE:
To draw from your own limited examples, look at the jailer: What must I do to be saved? Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ.

Sir, I humbly submit that you have admitted to the same error that MEE, Brian, and Brian's pastor have: You've limited yourself to certain areas of the Bible, and are lacking in real biblical knowledge.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

It seems that everyone likes to refer to the 'jailor' in Acts 16: 30-33. If you will look at it and continue on with verse 32, you will see that Paul said, "And they spake unto him (jailor) the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

Now if Paul preached repentance, being baptized in the name of Jesus Christ, and the baptism of the Holy Ghost, with the evidence of speaking in other tongues, why wouldn't he tell the jailor and his household the same?

As far as Brian, his Pastor, or myself lacking in any Biblical knowledge or as to admitting to such, better think again!

Most Christians have come to repentance, but that is where they seem to stop. Evidently from the erroneous historical teaching of man.

If a person was traveling and took the wrong route and someone was kind enough to show them the correct way, would some of you be so stubborn as to ignore him/her or look to see if they were going in the right direction?

None of us are trying to take away or to add to what you have...just trying to show a salvational issue, just as Paul did with King Agrippa. Acts 26:28-29)
28) Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian.
29) And Paul said, I would to God, that not only thou, but also all that hear me this day, were both almost, and altogether such as I am, except these bonds.

Think about it!

Personally, I think it was kind of Brian's Pastor to respond. Also, Brian you can tell him I said "Thanks."

Carol

I think he did an awesome job my self, and I will tell him you said so. If no one out there got anything from it, I did.

God Bless

 

[susanpet]

Since this page will soon be closed, I thought I would add some scripture.
1 Corinthians chap.14
1. Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, BUT RATHER THAT YE MAY PROPHESY,
2. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5. I would that ye all spake with tongues, BUT RATHER THAT YE PROPHESIETH: FOR GREATER IS HE THAT PROPHESIETH THAN HE THAT SPEAKETH WITH TONGUES, EXCEPT HE INTERPRET, THAT THE CHURCH MAY RECEIVE EDIFYING.
6. Now brethen, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, WHAT SHALL I PROFIT YOU, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

Its clear that Paul was saying he would rather you edify the church.

12. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, SEEK THAT YE MAY EXCEL TO THE EDIFYING OF THE CHURCH.

18. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all:
19. YET IN THE CHURCH I HAD RATHER SPEAK FIVE WORDS WITH MY UNDERSTANDING, THAT BY MY VOICE I MIGHT TEACH OTHERS ALSO, THAN TEN THOUSAND WORDS IN AN UNKNOWN TONGUE.

37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD.

It is clear that Paul was trying to tell the people at Corinth that they were abusing their gift of tongues. The same thing is happening today, whether they will admit it or not.
All things should be done decently and in order. If something causes confusion and division and abuse, then I believe I would take a long hard look at the Bible and put aside what I have been taught by men. God is not the aurthor of confusion, but of peace, as in ALL CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS.

Now I wonder how this scripture will get twisted.

 

[ONENESS]

Originally posted by susanpet:
Since this page will soon be closed, I thought I would add some scripture.
1 Corinthians chap.14
1. Follow after charity, and desire spiritual gifts, BUT RATHER THAT YE MAY PROPHESY,
2. For he that speaketh in an unknown tongue speaketh not unto men, but unto God: for no man understandeth him; howbeit in the spirit he speaketh mysteries.
3. But he that prophesieth speaketh unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.
4. He that speaketh in an unknown tongue edifieth himself; but he that prophesieth edifieth the church.
5. I would that ye all spake with tongues, BUT RATHER THAT YE PROPHESIETH: FOR GREATER IS HE THAT PROPHESIETH THAN HE THAT SPEAKETH WITH TONGUES, EXCEPT HE INTERPRET, THAT THE CHURCH MAY RECEIVE EDIFYING.
6. Now brethen, if I come unto you speaking with tongues, WHAT SHALL I PROFIT YOU, except I shall speak to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

Its clear that Paul was saying he would rather you edify the church.

12. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are zealous of spiritual gifts, SEEK THAT YE MAY EXCEL TO THE EDIFYING OF THE CHURCH.

18. I thank my God, I speak with tongues more than you all:
19. YET IN THE CHURCH I HAD RATHER SPEAK FIVE WORDS WITH MY UNDERSTANDING, THAT BY MY VOICE I MIGHT TEACH OTHERS ALSO, THAN TEN THOUSAND WORDS IN AN UNKNOWN TONGUE.

37. If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write unto you are THE COMMANDMENTS OF THE LORD.

It is clear that Paul was trying to tell the people at Corinth that they were abusing their gift of tongues. The same thing is happening today, whether they will admit it or not.
All things should be done decently and in order. If something causes confusion and division and abuse, then I believe I would take a long hard look at the Bible and put aside what I have been taught by men. God is not the aurthor of confusion, but of peace, as in ALL CHURCHES OF THE SAINTS.

Now I wonder how this scripture will get twisted.

It is clear that Paul was writeing to the church b/c they were unlearned. It is clear that Paul was writing this letter to keep order in the assembly. But this letter is not a rebuke saying that it has done away with. As I said before I will say again. Even if the gift is being used wrong in some churches guess what? That means the gift is still available.

1. Follow * after charity, and desire * spiritual gifts, but rather that ye may prophesy * .

2. For he that speaketh * in an UNKNOWN TONGUE SPEAKETH NOT UNTO MEN BUT UNTO GOD: for no man understandeth * him; howbeit in the SPIRIT HE SPEAKETH MYSTRIES

3. But he that prophesieth * speaketh * unto men to edification, and exhortation, and comfort.

4. He that speaketh * in an unknown tongue edifieth * himself; but he that prophesieth * edifieth * the church.

5.I WOULD THAT YE ALL SPAKE WITH TONGUES But rather that ye prophesied * : for greater is he that prophesieth * than he that speaketh * with tongues, except he interpret * , that the church may receive * edifying.

6. Now, brethren, if I come * unto you speaking * with tongues, what shall I profit * you,except I shall speak * to you either by revelation, or by knowledge, or by prophesying, or by doctrine?

7. And even things without life giving * sound, whether pipe or harp, except they give * a distinction in the sounds, how shall it be known * what is piped * or harped * ?

8. For if the trumpet give * an uncertain sound, who shall prepare himself * to the battle?

9. So likewise ye, except ye utter * by the tongue words easy to be understood, how shall it be known * what is spoken * ? for ye shall * speak * into the air.

10. There are * , it may be * , so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

11. Therefore if * I know * not the meaning of the voice, I shall be * unto him that speaketh * a barbarian,and he that speaketh * shall be a barbarian unto me.

12. Even so ye, forasmuch as ye are * zealous of spiritual gifts, seek * that ye may excel * to the edifying of the church.

13. Wherefore let him that speaketh * in an unknown tongue pray * that he may interpret * .

14. For if I pray * in an UNKOWN TONGUE MY SPIRIT PRAYETH * , but my understanding is * unfruitful.

15. What is it * then? I will pray * with the SPIRIT, and I will pray * with the understanding also: I will sing * with the SPIRIT, and I will sing * with the understanding also.

16. Else when thou shalt bless * with the spirit, how shall he that occupieth * the room of the unlearned say * Amen at thy giving of thanks, seeing he understandeth * not what thou sayest * ?

17. For thou verily givest thanks * well, but the other is * not edified * .

18. I THANK MY GOD I SPEAK WITH TONGUES MORE THAN YE ALL:

19. Yet in the church I had rather * speak * five words with my understanding, that by my voice I might teach * others also, than ten thousand words in an unknown tongue.

20. Brethren, be * not children in understanding: howbeit in malice be ye children * , but in understanding be * men.

21. In the law it is written * , With men of other tongues and other lips will I speak * unto this people; and yet for all that will they * not hear * me, saith * the Lord.

22. Wherefore tongues are * for a sign, not to them that believe * , but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe * .

23. If therefore the whole church be come together * into one place, and all speak * with tongues, and there come in * those that are unlearned, or unbelievers, will they * not say * that ye are mad * ?

24. But if all prophesy * , and there come in * one that believeth not, or one unlearned, he is convinced * of all, he is judged * of all:

25. And thus are * the secrets of his heart made * manifest; and so falling down * on his face he will worship * God, and report * that God is * in you of a truth.

26. How is it * then, brethren?when ye come together * , every one of you hath * a psalm, hath * a doctrine, hath * a tongue, hath * a revelation, hath * an interpretation. Let * all things be done * unto edifying.

27. If any man speak * in an unknown tongue, let it be by two, or at the most by three, and that by course; and let * one interpret * .

28. But if * there be * no interpreter, let him keep silence * in the church; and let him speak * to himself, and to God.

29. Let * the prophets speak * two or three, and let * the other judge * .

30. If any thing be revealed * to another that sitteth by * , let * the first hold his peace * .

31. For ye may * all prophesy * one by one, that all may learn * , and all may be comforted * .

32. And the spirits of the prophets are subject * to the prophets.

33. For God is * not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

34. Let * your women keep silence * in the churches: for it is * not permitted * unto them to speak * ; but they are commanded to be under obedience * , as also saith * the law.

35. And if they will * learn * any thing, let them ask * their husbands at home: for it is * a shame for women to speak * in the church.

36. What? came * the word of God out * from you? or came it * unto you only?

37. If any man think himself * to be * a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge * that the things that I write * unto you are * the commandments of the Lord.

38. But if any man be ignorant * , let him be ignorant * .

39. Wherefore, brethren, covet * to prophesy * , and FORBID NOT TO SPEAK WITH TONGUES.

40. Let * all things be done * decently and in order.

Now lets see how this gets twisted

 

[Lorelei]

1 Corinthians 14:36Did the word of God originate with you? Or are you the only people it has reached? 37If anybody thinks he is a prophet or spiritually gifted, let him acknowledge that what I am writing to you is the Lord's command. 38If he ignores this, he himself will be ignored.

Why aren't we ignoring those who refuse to acknowledge that Paul's instructions apply to themselves?

They have no desire to seek Truth, only to manipulate it to meet thier needs.

Paul felt strongly about those who perverted the gospel.

Galatians 1:6I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you by the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel-- 7which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let him be eternally condemned! 9As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let him be eternally condemned!

~Lorelei

 

[Don]

MEE, I take offense to your statement:

As far as Brian, his Pastor, or myself lacking in any Biblical knowledge or as to admitting to such, better think again!

I believe I have shown several times that there are scriptural passages which you have not been taught. I believe I have given you at least one, if not several, scriptural challenges that you failed to meet.

I believe that if you will openly and honestly re-read through Brian's pastor's messages, you will find that he did NOT address the problem of why he allows his church to violate the instructions Paul gave for the proper use of the gift of tongues.

And as I mentioned once before: even if you do have a shovel, if you're using it wrong, you ain't digging a hole.

The same goes for the gift of tongues: IF it still exists today, it MUST follow the instructions given to ALL of us, or it's not pleasing and/or honoring to God.

 

[GrannyGumbo]

This has been so frustrating for me. You'll NEVER get "them" to change their stubborn minds. Oneness, if you were here, the bishop would have singled you out alright & ain't no telling what would take place, but by your friend stepping in for you, one can only imagine. btw, my son chimes the EXACT same phrase to describe himself, so it must be one of those copycat things (tongue talking, holy rolling, etc.....)that all of you say...including all the scriptures you keep showing & about Cornelius(sp?)-how many times over & over I hear these SAME things repeated on their tapes. "EVEN SO, COME QUICK, LORD JESUS"

 

[DHK]

1Cor.12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
29 Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
30 Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?

1. Why is tongues the least important of all the gifts, seeing these gifts are put in order of importance, and the Oneness and Pentecostals make it the most important of all the gifts?

2. Why does Paul say here that not all speak in tongues, and the Oneness and Pentecostals say that all should speak in tongues?
DHK

 

[MEE]

Originally posted by GrannyGumbo:
This has been so frustrating for me. You'll NEVER get "them" to change their stubborn minds. Oneness, if you were here, the bishop would have singled you out alright & ain't no telling what would take place, but by your friend stepping in for you, one can only imagine. btw, my son chimes the EXACT same phrase to describe himself, so it must be one of those copycat things (tongue talking, holy rolling, etc.....)that all of you say...including all the scriptures you keep showing & about Cornelius(sp?)-how many times
over & over I hear these SAME things repeated on their tapes. "EVEN SO, COME QUICK, LORD JESUS"

Well Granny, there is one thing about all of these discussions.....ya'll can't stand before the 'white throne judgement' and say that you never heard the truth. Sorry to be so blunt, but some of you are a little 'huffy.'

BTW Don, Brian's Pastor did answer your question, you just didn't understand.

Carol

 

[MEE]

1. Why is tongues the least important of all the gifts, seeing these gifts are put in order of importance, and the Oneness and Pentecostals make it the most important of all the gifts?

2. Why does Paul say here that not all speak in tongues, and the Oneness and Pentecostals say that all should speak in tongues?
DHK

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

The "gift of tongues" IS NOT required for salvation. Go back and read what Brian's Pastor has to say. It's so simple!

*SIGH*
MEE

 

[Lorelei]

#2, tongues + interpretation equals prophesy. tongues + worship, prayer or just private devotion is simly evidence of the infilling of the Holy Ghost. same gift, different use.

The pastor calls the evidence of tongues a "gift" with a different use. Paul wrote that some were given the gift of tongues not all. How can it be the same gift if not everyone has it according to 1 Corinthians 12. He didn't say "to some are given the gift of tongues to be used this way. The gift is the gift and not all of us have the same gifts. You can't say "same gift different use" and prove your point.

~Lorelei

 

[Lorelei]

Originally posted by MEE:
Go back and read what Brian's Pastor has to say. It's so simple!

*SIGH*
MEE

No thanks,I will continue to read the Word of God and what it has to say. You would be better off doing the same. Don't take my word for it, take God's.

~Lorelei