GI's with no Chinesee Viurs shot - being kicked out

[Two Wings]

this is the typical legalese ... but review the bullet statements.

When the FAA took all of almost 8 whole hours to throw their stamp of 'approval' for these shots after the FDA issued the EUA a year ago, I knew something had run amuck.

The list of meds I can take and still work without some sort of intervention/tracking by the FAA can fit in the palm of my hand.

Yet this stuff was rubber stamped from the agency down the street. No effort what so ever to apply a (small sample) trial for even a month to validate the effects of aerospace physiology with this brand new drug.

ROTTEN
IN
THE
STATE
OF
DENMARK.

Kicker is ... as the shots rolled-out ... there was a couple of months before airline pilots (by definition < 65 y/o) were even eligible. Perhaps the FAA could have used that time to evaluate the medicines for aerospace purposes ...

Nah, we'll just let the big players self-certify their aircraft, manuals, training programs ... and pilots. What could possibly go wrong? (Lion Air, Ethiopia Airlines)

this is what happens when the oversight agency is literally assigned "business partner (in aviation)" as their mission statement.

 

[Wingman68]

The Pfizer vaccine was also fully FDA approved before it was mandated.

You know this is a lie, & yet you keep spewing it. There is no available approved Phizer vax. If there were, then all the others would have to be removed from EUA & we would then have accountability, by Pfizer. None of the shots being given are approved. End of story.

 

[Van]

Yet some recruits are allowed to have permanent beards due to
their religion.....

And I would have no problem if there was no religion exception, to discharging those who disobey orders.

 

[Two Wings]

And I would have no problem if there was no religion exception, to discharging those who disobey orders.

you continue to omit "lawful" in that.

If one disobeys a lawful order, he can expect a less than honorable discharge (general or dishonorable) ... such is not the case with these jabs.

Wonder why? is it just politics? Or COULD there be something more basic? right/wrong that even the UCMJ gets right?

 

[Van]

you continue to omit "lawful" in that.

If one disobeys a lawful order, he can expect a less than honorable discharge (general or dishonorable) ... such is not the case with these jabs.

Wonder why? is it just politics? Or COULD there be something more basic? right/wrong that even the UCMJ gets right?

For an order to be an order it must be "lawful." Are you saying those discharged for refusing to be vaccinated are receiving "honorable" discharges?

 

[Two Wings]

For an order to be an order it must be "lawful."

you're not familiar with the UCMJ are you?

yes ... that is the process now. Which is why some of us have recognized the boondoggle into which some of these servicemen have stumbled.

A new F22 pilot ... no more than 6 years time of service (including the undergrad degree time) ... almost 12 million invested ... walks with experience in a high performance jet and a possibly a 4 year degree from a service academy ... just for refusing the EUA jab.

Perhaps the jab mandate is a bad idea ... especially since there is little in the way of aerospace studies ... there is the notable flight surgeon in Ft. Hood ... and her pilots are HELO guys ... rarely getting above 2000 AGL ... how about that F22 guy who's at FL 500 ... solo?

It's a bad deal all the way around and reveals the politics this administration has engaged.

 

[Van]

you're not familiar with the UCMJ are you?

yes ... that is the process now. Which is why some of us have recognized the boondoggle into which some of these servicemen have stumbled.

A new F22 pilot ... no more than 6 years time of service (including the undergrad degree time) ... almost 12 million invested ... walks with experience in a high performance jet and a possibly a 4 year degree from a service academy ... just for refusing the EUA jab.

Perhaps the jab mandate is a bad idea ... especially since there is little in the way of aerospace studies ... there is the notable flight surgeon in Ft. Hood ... and her pilots are HELO guys ... rarely getting above 2000 AGL ... how about that F22 guy who's at FL 500 ... solo?

It's a bad deal all the way around and reveals the politics this administration has engaged.

If they are getting honorable discharges, why is their federal legislation in Congress to require the discharges to be honorable?
And no I am not an expert on the Uniform Code of Military Justice, other than the training I received in Boot Camp, and of course watching dozens of JAG shows.

 

[JonC]

Jon ... in my work ... arguably EXCESSIVELY regulated. these things matter.

engine oil, hydraulic fluid, fuel ... all of it. FAA-PMA approved is the requirement and just because the Mobil oil, the substance, is exactly the same used in turbine generators ... it is a violation to use the turbine generator oil in the Jet engines ... because only the certification number is legal --- and therefore authorized ... for use in jet engines.

If this isn't a valid comparison ... show me how/why.

... and for something which is presumably injected into a person's body, (in this case, millions of people) i'd consider that slightly more important that what lubes a jet engine. Actually in this case, approximately 75K pilots flying for scheduled air carriers ... responsible for the lives of how many daily passengers? A failed engine isn't NEARLY the problem of a failed pilot, yes?



No. this isn't my wheelhouse ... but how many times does a substance engage this process with this much visibility where IDENTIFICATION is as important? If the only issue is a marketing name, why is there no apparent availability of the Comirarty as labeled in the US? Why is it the Pfizer CV jab the only label available?

... and we're still dancing around the issue of who's liable. only the injected. If these things are as safe as advertised, why no liability to any one but the injected? Ford Motor Company is liable for a lot of stuff in their vehicles which at worst results in inconvenience or poor performance (my son's F150 just had a recall for cam phasers, worst thing that happens in the failure ... the fancy timing adjustment stops working and he burns 10 miles per gallon empty rather than 25 but it's getting redesigned phasers right now. Comped.) I mean ... it's already established since there are so few adverse reports, having some liability would assuage a lot of concern about these things.

I think we're about to start learning just how safe they are ... and I am having to adjust my level of alertness when my FO is flying the jet. We've already had evidence of these things being less than good for folks in an airplane ... but anyhow.

If the parallel wasn't so close to things I know, it'd probably not bother me as much ... but it does ... so it does.

I'm not arguing safety or effectiveness. We disagree on that part, which is fine.

I am arguing that the FDA approved the Pfizer vaccine under the "effective name" Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 Vaccine, authorized to be marketed under the "trade name" Comirnaty and for the spirit formula.

The argument about the FDA aporoved vaccine not being avaliable is anti-vax misinformation.

Theis type of misinformation clouds legitimate concerns with the vaccine by discrediting the anti-vax voice.

The same can be said of Wingman's post of Wembley prior to lines (over 3,000 were at the stadium to receive a vaccination).

Misinformation abounds all around and it makes it difficult for those trying to decide whether to get a vaccination to make an informed decision.

 

[Two Wings]

The argument about the FDA aporoved vaccine not being avaliable is anti-vax misinformation.

so where can I get a Comirarty injection?

You can thank those who write all these insanely complex rules for my questioning the certification of this drug ...and moreover it's application to airmen (FAA).

I've long held that at some point in an airline pilot's career, he should be able to go take the bar exam ... professional equivalent experience to law school. Our manuals are written by and for lawyers, not operators.

So ... in the course of being an operator who has legal documents to attend ... surely it's not a big step to understand the query "Ah, you said Comirarty, this label isn't Comirarty. Am I really expected to accept you couldn't put the authorized label on a vial of medicine?"

 

[Two Wings]

If they are getting honorable discharges, why is their federal legislation in Congress to require the discharges to be honorable?

this is why.

Given the party who controls the whitehouse and the narrative about these jabs is also in control of congress ... clearly this is beyond a political issue.

Never before has the US military mandated a vaccination which didn't have full FDA approval ... even if that approval was "bought."

 

[Salty]

So what does Biden think of what kind of discharge should be given:
Biden opposes honorable discharge guarantee for troops who refuse COVID vaccine

 

[Aaron]

My position is based on what I learned years ago in the Coast Guard. At worst, You respect the rank, not the man.

You're living in the past. What if the man was impersonating an officer?

 

[Wingman68]

I'm not arguing safety or effectiveness. We disagree on that part, which is fine.

I am arguing that the FDA approved the Pfizer vaccine under the "effective name" Pfizer-BioNTech Covid-19 Vaccine, authorized to be marketed under the "trade name" Comirnaty and for the spirit formula.

The argument about the FDA aporoved vaccine not being avaliable is anti-vax misinformation.

Theis type of misinformation clouds legitimate concerns with the vaccine by discrediting the anti-vax voice.

The same can be said of Wingman's post of Wembley prior to lines (over 3,000 were at the stadium to receive a vaccination).

Misinformation abounds all around and it makes it difficult for those trying to decide whether to get a vaccination to make an informed decision.

I have the video of Wembley. It shows that there was an initial crowd of people, but halfway through the day there was nobody, just like the pic. They had hoped to get 10,000 through that day, they got less than a third of that number despite the full front page ads in EVERY PAPER, which was the whole point of the thread I posted. You don’t find that worthy of discussion, you just want to play, & inflame with gotcha’s. You’ve got nothing is what I see, including humility. Cheers.

 

[Salty]

You're living in the past. What if the man was impersonating an officer?

Then he is not holding the office!

But if you are not aware - then you show respect -

Why is it so hard to respect people.

I just had a major disagreement with a doctor.
Doesnt mean I cant still respect him -
Just means we disagree on some things.

Didint Jesus show respect to the woman at the well?
then are we any better?

 

[AustinC]

You're living in the past. What if the man was impersonating an officer?

Tell that to God who ordained Joe Biden as President of the United States.

Let's be honest. Everyone who has no medical reason to not be vaccinated is in direct rebellion against the United States government and is therefore openly disobeying God.

 

[Salty]

Tell that to God who ordained Joe Biden as President of the United States.

Let's be honest. Everyone who has no medical reason to not be vaccinated is in direct rebellion against the United States government and is therefore openly disobeying God.

I would add religious reasons- we might disagree with the reasoning - but if it is a sincerely held doctrine.....

 

[Aaron]

My position is based on what I learned years ago in the Coast Guard. At worst, You respect the rank, not the man.

Also, here's the difference. The President is not my commander. He is not my ruler. We don't call him the Governor of the United States. Even if the occupier is in the position lawfully, he is not my President. The President is the president of a corporation. He presides over congress and the politics of the corporation of states. He does not preside over any individual state, county, town or citizen. He is an executive charged with federal law enforcement, and the defense of the Constitution.

My highest law enforcement officer is the County Sheriff.

A just and moral law is due my honor and respect.

Just so you know and can cease your military style of virtue here on a Christian board.

 

[Aaron]

Tell that to God who ordained Joe Biden as President of the United States.

Let's be honest. Everyone who has no medical reason to not be vaccinated is in direct rebellion against the United States government and is therefore openly disobeying God.

That goes to you, too.

 

[JonC]

so where can I get a Comirarty injection?

You can thank those who write all these insanely complex rules for my questioning the certification of this drug ...and moreover it's application to airmen (FAA).

I've long held that at some point in an airline pilot's career, he should be able to go take the bar exam ... professional equivalent experience to law school. Our manuals are written by and for lawyers, not operators.

So ... in the course of being an operator who has legal documents to attend ... surely it's not a big step to understand the query "Ah, you said Comirarty, this label isn't Comirarty. Am I really expected to accept you couldn't put the authorized label on a vial of medicine?"

Almost anywhere. If you just want a label then you may need to wait.

What you seem to be missing is the vaccine approved by the FDA is the Pfizer-BioNTech Covid Vaccine which is authorized to be marked under the trade name Comirnaty. Read the previously attached FDA approval docs.

Anyway, the vaccines labeled Comirnaty have been avaliable for a couple of months.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

this is the typical legalese ... but review the bullet statements.
...

And not just those. The following seems rather telling (from page 4)

As the recipients are likely aware, the FDA has not approved any of the COVID-19 shots currently available in the United States. On August 23, the FDA granted BioNTech Manufacturing GmbH’s Biologics Licensing Application to distribute the Comirnaty vaccine in the United States once certain conditions are met; however, the Comirnaty vaccine is not currently available in the United States – and will not be until the supply of the Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is first exhausted. See https://www.fda.gov/media/151710/download. The Pfizer-BioNTech vaccine is currently available only under an EUA, which the FDA extended on August 23, 2021. See https://www.fda.gov/media/150386/download. It is also important to note that the approved vaccine, Comirnaty, cannot be said to be interchangeable with unapproved inoculations.5​

That footnote 5 reads:

5 The concept that unapproved COVID inoculations should be considered "interchangeable" was recently adjudged to be incorrect by a federal court examining the argument. See Doe et al v. Austin et al, (USDC Northern Dist. Florida) (October 6, 2021). In this decision relating to the DOD and vaccine mandates for military members, a federal judge began by noting that, under the relevant EUA statute, recipients of EUA drugs must be "informed ... of the option to accept or refuse administration of the product.” The court went on to explain that “DOD’s guidance documents explicitly say only FDA-licensed COVID-19 vaccines are mandated" and that while such a mandate would be applicable to the Comirnaty vaccine since it was FDA-approved, the “plaintiffs have shown that the DOD is requiring injections from vials not labeled ‘Comirnaty’ and that "defense counsel could not even say whether vaccines labeled ‘Comirnaty’ exist at all.” In considering the DOD’s argument that it was okay to interchange vaccine vials because allegedly "the contents of EUA-labeled vials are chemically identical to the contents of vials labeled ‘Comirnaty’" the judge noted that such argument was entirely “unconvincing” and went on to further state that “FDA licensure does not retroactively apply to vials shipped before BLA approval” and that EUA provisions suggest “drugs mandated for military personnel be actually BLA-approved, not merely chemically similar to a BLA-approved drug.” Id.
​

The document is dated Dec 15, 2021.