GI's with no Chinesee Viurs shot - being kicked out

[Two Wings]

I take it it's like the military requiring a flight physical.....or drivers having to maintain a physical?

yes. similar. IDK the frequency of the truck driver's medical, but I've stated semi-annual for at least 1/2 of the commercial airline pilots (FOs require a Class 2, which is annual, unless they are FOs on the long haul flights, then Class 1 required ... and there are typically more Captains because those are senior positions and senior pilots have more vacation to cover)

Anyway, there are two opinions. One is that the vaccine is unjustified and the other that it is justified. You hold a minority opinion, which is fine. I don't.

* vaccine mandate.

majority or minority is irrelevant to righteous. This is why our government isn't a democracy but a Constitutional Republic. The minority gets a say. In theory.

Employers rely on experts to make their decisions.

LOL ... no they don't. They decide based upon what they perceive is the best for their interests. Which way is the wind blowing today.

A smart employer would use the recommendation of the CDC and FDA.

I agree ... and in this case ... do precisely the opposite.

 

[JonC]

LOL ... no they don't. They decide based upon what they perceive is the best for their interests.

I think we're saying the same thing here.

My point is regardless of what an employer believes a smart employer will rely on the experts in a position to make those decisions.

Every nation - not just the US - has concluded covid a threat that necessities action. They have determined vaccines are important. The experts in a position to make recommendations to the government rely on scientists and experts in the field.

Every nation has a minority dissenting group that rejects the conclusions of these experts, but are not in a position to make the decision. Most of them are not even in a position to evaluate the opposing conclusions.

A smart employer will go with what the CDC, FDA, and OSHA recommends.

 

[Wingman68]

Pfizer, FDA Dodge Media Questions About Pfizer Comirnaty Vaccine

They should just ask Jon. He can tell them how ignorant they are & set them straight in a hurry.

 

[Two Wings]

I think we're saying the same thing here.

My point is regardless of what an employer believes a smart employer will rely on the experts in a position to make those decisions.

Every nation - not just the US - has concluded covid a threat that necessities action. They have determined vaccines are important. The experts in a position to make recommendations to the government rely on scientists and experts in the field.

Every nation has a minority dissenting group that rejects the conclusions of these experts, but are not in a position to make the decision. Most of them are not even in a position to evaluate the opposing conclusions.

A smart employer will go with what the CDC, FDA, and OSHA recommends.

Lol. Ok

 

[Revmitchell]

yes. similar. IDK the frequency of the truck driver's medical, but I've stated semi-annual for at least 1/2 of the commercial airline pilots (FOs require a Class 2, which is annual, unless they are FOs on the long haul flights, then Class 1 required ... and there are typically more Captains because those are senior positions and senior pilots have more vacation to cover)



* vaccine mandate.

majority or minority is irrelevant to righteous. This is why our government isn't a democracy but a Constitutional Republic. The minority gets a say. In theory.



LOL ... no they don't. They decide based upon what they perceive is the best for their interests. Which way is the wind blowing today.



I agree ... and in this case ... do precisely the opposite.

Dont buy into the theory that those who oppose the vaccine are a minority. First its never been proven, second even if it were true what exactly is that supposed to mean? What are the the actual numbers that are not fudged by politics and the far left political agenda.

The claim that those who oppose the vax are a minority minority is a political one. Its political because its intended to belittle those who have a view different than their own by painting that other view as less meaningful and there by winning a debate and shutting it down.

It is also the logical fallacy called the bandwagon fallacy which implies since everyone or most people are doing it then that proves how right the majority view is.

lastly they like to throw out trust the science. This is yet another political tactic to shut down debate. Such tactics show their own insecurities on the issue and it shows how weak their arguments really are or they wouldnt have to use such dishonest tactics and compromise their integrity.

 

[JonC]

Dont buy into the theory that those who oppose the vaccine are a minority. First its never been proven, second even if it were true what exactly is that supposed to mean? What are the the actual numbers that are not fudged by politics and the far left political agenda.

The claim that those who oppose the vax are a minority minority is a political one. Its political because its intended to belittle those who have a view different than their own by painting that other view as less meaningful and there by winning a debate and shutting it down.

It is also the logical fallacy called the bandwagon fallacy which implies since everyone or most people are doing it then that proves how right the majority view is.

lastly they like to throw out trust the science. This is yet another political tactic to shut down debate. Such tactics show their own insecurities on the issue and it shows how weak their arguments really are or they wouldnt have to use such dishonest tactics and compromise their integrity.

They are a minority.

Most people who reject the vaccine are not opposed to the vacvine (they are not anti-covid-vaxers) and do not desire to make the decisions for other people.

Likewise, most who are vaccinated do not care if you get a shot.

And the unvaccinated are a decreasing minority. Most in the US are vaccinated. More unvaccinated are becoming vaccinated.

Your conspiracy theory is flawed. One obvious reason is the nation's focus on boosters. The anti-covid-vaxers no longer matter to an extent. The nation has moved on without them.

The proof is in the number of vaccines given to include boosters. These are increasing. You think every clinic, every pharmacy, every health department, and every state is in some conspiracy to provide fake accounts of shots given. This is silly.

 

[JonC]

Also, the bandwagon fallacy is arguing something is correct because the majority believes do. It is not accepting the actual majority exists.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

They are a minority.

Most people who reject the vaccine are not opposed to the vacvine (they are not anti-covid-vaxers) and do not desire to make the decisions for other people.

Likewise, most who are vaccinated do not care if you get a shot.

And the unvaccinated are a decreasing minority. Most in the US are vaccinated. More unvaccinated are becoming vaccinated.

Your conspiracy theory is flawed. One obvious reason is the nation's focus on boosters. The anti-covid-vaxers no longer matter to an extent. The nation has moved on without them.

The proof is in the number of vaccines given to include boosters. These are increasing. You think every clinic, every pharmacy, every health department, and every state is in some conspiracy to provide fake accounts of shots given. This is silly.

That represents a very flawed view of what conspiracy consists of.

Conspiracies do not require large numbers behind the actual conspiracy. Conspiracies require very few key players behind the scenes.

In fact, one person could enlist others to supposedly conspire to do something seemingly innocuous (no pun intended), yet be plotting something much more nefarious unknown to the others.

For example, disinformation conspiracies do not require large numbers of people to initiate the disinformation, but only key players.

The rest is done via what are sometimes known as “useful idiots,” namely those influential enough within their circles to pass on the disinformation.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Also, the bandwagon fallacy is arguing something is correct because the majority believes do. It is not accepting the actual majority exists.

That first sentence is basically what was stated. The second doesn’t make much sense.

Those making a “bandwagon” claim include the supposed majority in that claim. They don’t just accept that their majority exists, they are staking their claim on its existence.

However, the exposition of the fallacy does not rely on the actual existence of the majority. The exposition of the fallacy states that the claim is invalid regardless of the actual majority.

 

[JonC]

That represents a very flawed view of what conspiracy consists of.

Conspiracies do not require large numbers behind the actual conspiracy. Conspiracies require very few key players behind the scenes.

In fact, one person could enlist others to supposedly conspire to do something seemingly innocuous (no pun intended), yet be plotting something much more nefarious unknown to the others.

For example, disinformation conspiracies do not require large numbers of people to initiate the disinformation, but only key players.

The rest is done via what are sometimes known as “useful idiots,” namely those influential enough within their circles to pass on the disinformation.

I disagree.

The anti-covid-vax conspiracy theorists have put forward several conspiracies:

1. Freemasons are using covid for an agenda (Wingman).

2. Covid is a New World Order conspiracy to reduce the world's population (Wingman).

3. Gene sequencing is a myth (Revmitchel).

4. Covid does not exist (Wingman).

5. The government is providing fake numbers on vaccinations (Revmitchell).

 

[JonC]

That first sentence is basically what was stated. The second doesn’t make much sense.

Those making a “bandwagon” claim include the supposed majority in that claim. They don’t just accept that their majority exists, they are staking their claim on its existence.

However, the exposition of the fallacy does not rely on the actual existence of the majority. The exposition of the fallacy states that the claim is invalid regardless of the actual majority.

No. The difference is @Revmitchell is denying the actual number of vaccines reported. He is a conspiracy theorist who denies scientific facts and methods.

The Bandwagon Fallacy would be saying something is right because it is believed by a majority.

Here we know the number of vaccines given, the locations providing the vaccines, the lot number of the vaccine, etc. They are reported by facilities giving the vaccine.

But as I said before, you cannot convince a flat earther the earth is round.

And who cares anyway. For the most part the world is moving on.

As far as the anti-covid-vaxers go, "let them eat cake".

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

I disagree.

The anti-covid-vax conspiracy theorists have put forward several conspiracies:

1. Freemasons are using covid for an agenda (Wingman).

2. Covid is a New World Order conspiracy to reduce the world's population (Wingman).

3. Gene sequencing is a myth (Revmitchel).

4. Covid does not exist (Wingman).

5. The government is providing fake numbers on vaccinations (Revmitchell).

That says nothing contradicting my post, which was about what actual conspiracy consists of. We see them play out frequently, especially disinformation conspiracies.

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

No. The difference is @Revmitchell is denying the actual number of vaccines reported. He is a conspiracy theorist who denies scientific facts and methods.

The Bandwagon Fallacy would be saying something is right because it is believed by a majority.

Here we know the number of vaccines given, the locations providing the vaccines, the lot number of the vaccine, etc. They are reported by facilities giving the vaccine.

But as I said before, you cannot convince a flat earther the earth is round.

And who cares anyway. For the most part the world is moving on.

As far as the anti-covid-vaxers go, "let them eat cake".

Again, that doesn't contradict my post at all, which was about what a bandwagon fallacy is by definition and what its exposition is.

But it's rather obvious that we all three know this fallacy. Whether it applies here has nothing to do with my post, or with the one I replied to.

 

[JonC]

That says nothing contradicting my post, which was about what actual conspiracy consists of. We see them play out frequently, especially disinformation conspiracies.

Sure it does. The data involving the number of vaccines given is a fact.

We're I have said we know vaccines work because most of the experts and scientists believe they work, that would be a bandwagon fallacy (the majority could be wrong).

But just pointing out actual facts is not.

 

[JonC]

That says nothing contradicting my post, which was about what actual conspiracy consists of. We see them play out frequently, especially disinformation conspiracies.

Then prove it.

A Conspiracy Theory is defined as "a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators". (Websters Dictionary).

@Wingman68 posted articles stating that the covid virus does not exist, but is a Freemason power play. He also posted an article that the virus is a New World Order agenda to decrease the world population.

@Revmitchell posted that covid cannot be detected, that varients cannot be detected, that these are lies told by the government to control people as gene sequencing (the traditional method of tracking varients within a virus) is a myth.

How are these not conspiracy theories?

 

[Wingman68]

Then prove it.

A Conspiracy Theory is defined as "a theory that explains an event or set of circumstances as the result of a secret plot by usually powerful conspirators". (Websters Dictionary).

@Wingman68 posted articles stating that the covid virus does not exist, but is a Freemason power play. He also posted an article that the virus is a New World Order agenda to decrease the world population.

@Revmitchell posted that covid cannot be detected, that varients cannot be detected, that these are lies told by the government to control people as gene sequencing (the traditional method of tracking varients within a virus) is a myth.

How are these not conspiracy theories?

If you are going to drag people around, you are going to have to post links, otherwise you are just gossiping. You brought up gossiping initially, btw, while chastising a poster, do you want a link?

 

[RighteousnessTemperance&]

Sure it does. ...

No, it doesn't and didn't. Not at all. Mine was a general point about what conspiracies are and are not. How they specifically apply here is another matter, which I did not address.

But here is a specific COVID-19 example.

While he was essentially mass murdering large numbers of people in nursing homes, and perhaps causing untold numbers of other deaths due to his mishandling of the pandemic, Cuomo (NY Gov) was busy having staff help write his book, was doing briefings as though he was properly handling the pandemic, and was covering up the actual number of those dying in nursing homes.

That everyone involved in this multi-faceted conspiracy was knowingly conspiring is unlikely, but certainly key players besides Cuomo were aware. The latter did conspire to do, and then did, these nefarious things, and yet nearly exactly the opposite was the news for a year. That mass murderer was hailed a hero during that time. But of course the real goal was to take down the Trump administration, which effort involved a much larger conspiracy.

 

[JonC]

Look it it this way,

Just in December so far (in the US) -

Over 16,400,000 boosters have been given.
Over 6,200,000 first shots were given.
Over 12,125,000 recieved their second shot.

The unvaccinated are a decreasing population which increasingly does not matter.

 

[JonC]

If you are going to drag people around, you are going to have to post links, otherwise you are just gossiping. You brought up gossiping initially, btw, while chastising a poster, do you want a link?

It is not gossip. You posted those articles. We all know you posted those articles.

But I will post a link IF you deny you posted those articles.

Are you saying you did not post those articles?

 

[JonC]

No, it doesn't and didn't. Not at all. Mine was a general point about what conspiracies are and are not. How they specifically apply here is another matter, which I did not address.

But here is a specific COVID-19 example.

While he was essentially mass murdering large numbers of people in nursing homes, and perhaps causing untold numbers of other deaths due to his mishandling of the pandemic, Cuomo (NY Gov) was busy having staff help write his book, was doing briefings as though he was properly handling the pandemic, and was covering up the actual number of those dying in nursing homes.

That everyone involved in this multi-faceted conspiracy was knowingly conspiring is unlikely, but certainly key players besides Cuomo were aware. The latter did conspire to do, and then did, these nefarious things, and yet nearly exactly the opposite was the news for a year. That mass murderer was hailed a hero during that time. But of course the real goal was to take down the Trump administration, which effort involved a much larger conspiracy.

Ok.....so you are saying the theory that covid is a New World Order to decrease the world population IS NOT a conspiracy theory.

I disagree.