1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Only a deceived in Sunday school child would read it thus.
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Glorification is what’s limited, not atonement.
- Thread starter Barry Johnson
- Start date
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Thats backwards . look at what it says . It says they are born again after believing. its painfull to see what your doing to the text .
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
Faith is a fruit of the Holy Spirit. You think the flesh can save.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
What type of faith ? I have a friend who says he has faith in his car to get him to work .
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
No the flesh cannot save . I've already said a human does not have the ability to regenerate him self . He cannot baptise himself into the body of the Lord Jesus . We cannot die for the sins of the world . Do you see we cannot change ourselves spiritually . This is a work of God . If you believe that man can make himself a new creation then I'm concerned for you ? why did Jesus have to suffer and die ?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Not if he was left to just read it ,without hundreds of years of systamatic theology clouding his mind .
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You believe what the Jesuits planned for you to believe if you are a Dispensationalist.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
But..... you make God into a bully who threatens to torture you forever if you don't say "Uncle" when you base salvation on your "choice".
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Its God who has chosen to save those that believe . Your trying to tell God he can't save how he pleases .
1 cor 1 21For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
You are telling God how he saves when he knows better.
So the sins of people in hell have been atoned for?
Yes, congrats, you are a universalist. This also extends to all men in that there is really no eternal punishment since God does not count their sin against them!! Hence according to you Hell is irrelevant and the sin of all mankind since Adam has been atoned for by the blood of Jesus
Yes, congrats, you are a universalist. This also extends to all men in that there is really no eternal punishment since God does not count their sin against them!! Hence according to you Hell is irrelevant and the sin of all mankind since Adam has been atoned for by the blood of Jesus
Mikey
Active Member
this is nonsense.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
why is everyone saved if Jesus has paid for there sins ? This demonstrates you do not know what saves and how . is everyone Glorified because Jesus paid for everyones sins ? wheres that in the bible? Where in the bible does it say , because Jesus has Died for the whole comos , redeeming the whole cosmos including everyones sins . Where does it say because Jesus has done this therefore everyone will automatically believe the Gospel , automatically will recieve Jesus and recieve the Holy Spirit ? where does it say because Jesus died for the whole world therefore they will be glorified ? nowhere because Jesus death does not save . Jesus death , burial and resurrection saves , when and only when we believe . If you let go of calvinism the ' universalist 'boogeyman makes no sense . No one is saved by the atonememt , not until you recieve the atonement.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
I don't even know what your saying here ?
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
where does it say that people are paying for there sins in hell ? For how long ? is this a subtle form of purgatory ? Hell was not created for man . But hell is real, but they are not there paying for there sins . They are in hell because they were not glorified.
1689Dave
Well-Known Member
The law demands obedience or punishment. If you think you must choose to obey the gospel to be saved, you turn it into law, and God into a bully who threatens you with eternal torture if you don't "say, uncle". This is not grace. Nor is it the gospel.
Dave G
Well-Known Member
The same as all of God's children.
The Lord's mark of him being justified by His grace and by His Son's blood was the gift of faith.
Barry Johnson
Well-Known Member
Rom 4The same as all of God's children.
The Lord's mark of him being justified by His grace and by His Son's blood was the gift of faith.
5¶But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
His Faith. Not a 'gifted faith '
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