God and TIME

[Jarthur001]

The burden of proof falls on you. You claimed "you were sure", so you need to provide Scripture backing your claim...not me.

Psalm 90:2 Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever you had formed the earth and the world, from everlasting to everlasting you are God.

The proof is...there is no Scripture to support you.

There is no reason to believe it, other then hollywood, and therefore should not.

That is like me saying a UFO came and took me to Mars and you must believe it. If I have no proof, why should you? In light of creation, time is only for creation. God works within time, when He works within His creation. God made it that way. In this light, If the Bible does not say it...I do not believe it brother. No need to add to His word. It is fine just as it stands.

This does not limit God, For God can also step outside of His creation....as was the case with Christ and His new body after His Death. Before His death and the taking of His new body, ....time, space and matter was linked as one to His old body. If he had jumped as the devil asked Him to...He would have fallen. His body was the same as ours and gravity would have pulled him down to the rocks. He died on the cross, for anyone that had a spear placed in His side and nailed to the cross would die. If time was not linked to matter and space, the spear would have went right though Him leaving Him untouched. Yet after His death and having a new body, He walked though walls. and assended in the air. Christ death was REAL and took place at a given Time. Christ will not go back in time and change His death. I feel sorry for those who hold that He some how may do this.

 

[webdog]

The proof is...there is no Scripture to support you.

There is no reason to believe it, other then hollywood, and therefore should not.

That is like me saying a UFO came and took me to Mars and you must believe it. If I have no proof, why should you? In light of creation, time is only for creation. God works within time, when He works within His creation. God made it that way. In this light, If the Bible does not say it...I do not believe it brother. No need to add to His word. It is fine just as it stands.

This does not limit God, For God can also step outside of His creation....as was the case with Christ and His new body after His Death. Before His death and the taking of His new body, ....time, space and matter was linked as one to His old body. If he had jumped as the devil asked Him to...He would have fallen. His body was the same as ours and gravity would have pulled him down to the rocks. He died on the cross, for anyone that had a spear placed in His side and nailed to the cross would die. If time was not linked to matter and space, the spear would have went right though Him leaving Him untouched. Yet after His death and having a new body, He walked though walls. and assended in the air. Christ death was REAL and took place at a given Time. Christ will not go back in time and change His death. I feel sorry for those who hold that He some how may do this.

Translated: There's no proof in Scripture that supports my "I am sure" comment

I don't think you really understand God's being outside of time...while God working within time.

BTW...doesn't Christianity as a whole sound kinda like "science fiction"? Can't dismiss something because it sounds far fetched. God dying in MY place sounds far fetched...but it's true.

 

[Blammo]

One way of looking at it...is that these words stand in express terms, the doctrine of general redemption...and this is what many will say. But lets look close at the context.

If these words represent God, as the Savior of all men, in that of spiritual salvation, they prove more than any other verse the universal salvation of all. To say that Christ is the Savior of all men, with respect to the impetration of salvation for all, though not to the application of them all, is a distinction which must, in part, make the death of Christ in vain.

Also..Not the possibility of salvation , nor ..a conditional one, nor ..a putting of men into a salvable state, was the intent of Paul when he says.."we toil and strive, [yes and] suffer reproach". This surly is not salvation, for then it would be works salvation. For then they that believe, would be in an uncertain state..always working and not knowing. Yet it is shown in the the Bible (2 cor 5)...It is certain that he that believeth shall be saved.

Besides, if God is the Savior of all men, in the sense of eternal salvation, then he must be the Savior of unbelievers, contrary to many passages of the Bible..... such as John 3:18, 36, Mark 16:16, Revelation 21:8.

The words are best looked at as providential of God.. Preserver.... which all men have a share in, more or less. God the Father and not Christ, is here called the living God, who is the Savior of all men, that is, the preserver of all men....who supports them in their being.... and supplies them with all the necessaries of life....and especially them that believe, who are the particular care of his providence.


In Christ James

Fiddle sticks James,

Are these your very own words? Never mind, I already know the answer. :smilewinkgrin:

BTW, I was not aware "Golly" was one of God's names. What book did you read that in?

 

[Jarthur001]

James, weren't you the one the claimed YHWH traslated "literally" was "I shall (will) be" instead of "I Am"? Can you tell me in what tense "shall / will" is? If anyone holds to the "now" theory, it would be you.

Some days...I want to pull my hair out...

Yes....

Did you not also read that the tense is not in YHWH? The tense is set by the context. hayah has NO tense. The words used in the English (KJV) are..was, come to pass, came, has been, were happened, become, pertained, better for thee


Like...this verse..

And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

It would be so easy for me to claim that hayah/YHWH would be speaking of the past. Yet I cannot misuse the word. The context sets the tense to make it the past.

When God talked with Moses and said I AM that I AM...the context demands "I shall be".

We have been over this before in GREAT detail. I do not see what is so hard about it.

 

[Jarthur001]

Translated: There's no proof in Scripture that supports my "I am sure" comment

And you it seems have nothing to say about time travel ...other then...feelings not backed by the Bible.

 

[Jarthur001]

Fiddle sticks James,

Are these your very own words? Never mind, I already know the answer. :smilewinkgrin:

BTW, I was not aware "Golly" was one of God's names. What book did you read that in?

Euphemisms

http://www.innvista.com/culture/religion/deities/oaths.htm

 

[Jarthur001]

Fiddle sticks James,

Are these your very own words? Never mind, I already know the answer. :smilewinkgrin:

Good debate point. Thats a good way to address the subject.


How about you Blammo, do you have a verse showing one can go.."back in time"? I'm not talking about a movie. Lets try to pull something from the Bible showing this. If not...see if you can post another joke for us.


In Christ...James

 

[webdog]

And you it seems have nothing to say about time travel ...other then...feelings not backed by the Bible.

God's omniscience, omnipresence and subsequently omnitemporalness is all I need....all backed by the Bible.

 

[webdog]

Did you not also read that the tense is not in YHWH? The tense is set by the context. hayah has NO tense. The words used in the English (KJV) are..was, come to pass, came, has been, were happened, become, pertained, better for thee

I wonder why the tense is NOT in YHWH? Hmm.....

What tense is...

Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

 

[Jarthur001]

God's omniscience, omnipresence and subsequently omnitemporalness is all I need.

as with I.

To bad for you this is not time travel.

 

[Blammo]

Good debate point. Thats a good way to address the subject.


How about you Blammo, do you have a verse showing one can go.."back in time"? I'm not talking about a movie. Lets try to pull something from the Bible showing this. If not...see if you can post another joke for us.


In Christ...James

Supercalifragilistic Jimbo,

I may have to read the entire thread again, but I don't remember anyone talking about God going forward or backward in time, I only remember people talking about God being able to see all things in all times.

 

[Jarthur001]

I wonder why the tense is NOT in YHWH? Hmm.....

What tense is...

Exo 3:14 God said to Moses, "I AM WHO I AM." And he said, "Say this to the people of Israel, 'I AM has sent me to you.'"

please....it is shalach

 

[Jarthur001]

Supercalifragilistic Jimbo,

I may have to read the entire thread again, but I don't remember anyone talking about God going forward or backward in time, I only remember people talking about God being able to see all things in all times.

you better start reading..the day is young

 

[Jarthur001]

Supercalifragilistic Jimbo,

I may have to read the entire thread again, but I don't remember anyone talking about God going forward or backward in time, I only remember people talking about God being able to see all things in all times.

But...Being that you made this statement, do you agree with me and Bob that Time travel does not happen? God knows...and that is it. There is no need to travel anywhere. There is no need to travel, when HE WAS ALREADY THERE WHEN THAT TIME TOOK PLACE???.

There is no space to travel to. The space that once was...is taking up new matter (A mass). God does not learn from us by looking at us...God does not need to travel and see. God does not need to look and see anything, ...any person ...any place. HE KNOWS...and He knows because He is GOD!!

Now does He watch us? Yes. But He does not learn from our action. God knew what we would do not because He saw us do it, But because He is GOD!!


This shows how silly this idea is. Some have God going around back and forth...trying to see what we have done...so that He can bless us...or damn us. This is making our God small. He knows for He is GOD!!

 

[ChelleBell]

I'm sorry that I don't have “time” the read the whole thread now, but I too am fascinated by God and time.


I named my Germen Shepherd “Time” because I wanted to give her the most profound name I could think of. You take a young man, full of vim and vigor and in the cores of time you have a dawdling old man... time don't stop or slow down but to us it seems to either drag of fly. One of the Queens of England was quoted as saying, on her death bead, “my kingdom for a moment of time”.


I went so far as to do a study on time in the bible, I will post it if I can find it, but I will post some of my thoughts on time now and read all the posts when I get a chance.


Time is a unit of measure, like an inch. Time measures, in this day and age, the rate of decay (see Rom 8:21-23). There was a time when time didn't mater, before sin entered in.


Time was originally intended for our benefit, a way for a finite man to experience infinite God. (see Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.)


Revelation 1:10
“I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,” was John saying he was in the Spirit on Sunday OR was he saying that he had gone forward in time to the Lord's day in the Spirit?


The most profound statement in the bible regarding time: Psalms 90:12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.


An honorable mention goes to Ecclesiastes 9:11-13
I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them. This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, and it seemed great unto me:

 

[Jarthur001]

I'm sorry that I don't have “time” the read the whole thread now, but I too am fascinated by God and time.


I named my Germen Shepherd “Time” because I wanted to give her the most profound name I could think of. You take a young man, full of vim and vigor and in the cores of time you have a dawdling old man... time don't stop or slow down but to us it seems to either drag of fly. One of the Queens of England was quoted as saying, on her death bead, “my kingdom for a moment of time”.


I went so far as to do a study on time in the bible, I will post it if I can find it, but I will post some of my thoughts on time now and read all the posts when I get a chance.


Time is a unit of measure, like an inch. Time measures, in this day and age, the rate of decay (see Rom 8:21-23). There was a time when time didn't mater, before sin entered in.


Time was originally intended for our benefit, a way for a finite man to experience infinite God. (see Eph 2:7 That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.)


Revelation 1:10
“I was in the Spirit on the Lord's day, and heard behind me a great voice, as of a trumpet,” was John saying he was in the Spirit on Sunday OR was he saying that he had gone forward in time to the Lord's day in the Spirit?


The most profound statement in the bible regarding time: Psalms 90:12 So teach us to number our days, that we may apply our hearts unto wisdom.


An honorable mention goes to Ecclesiastes 9:11-13
I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.For man also knoweth not his time: as the fishes that are taken in an evil net, and as the birds that are caught in the snare; so are the sons of men snared in an evil time, when it falleth suddenly upon them. This wisdom have I seen also under the sun, and it seemed great unto me:

ChelleBell,
Thank You ..Thank You...Thank You.

great post...and tis good to meet you.



IN Christ...James

 

[Blammo]

But...Being that you made this statement, do you agree with me and Bob that Time travel does not happen? God knows...and that is it. There is no need to travel anywhere. There is no need to travel, when HE WAS ALREADY THERE WHEN THAT TIME TOOK PLACE???.

There is no space to travel to. The space that once was...is taking up new matter (A mass). God does not learn from us by looking at us...God does not need to travel and see. God does not need to look and see anything, ...any person ...any place. HE KNOWS...and He knows because He is GOD!!

Now does He watch us? Yes. But He does not learn from our action. God knew what we would do not because He saw us do it, But because He is GOD!!


This shows how silly this idea is. Some have God going around back and forth...trying to see what we have done...so that He can bless us...or damn us. This is making our God small. He knows for He is GOD!!

Psalms 139:1-24 O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether. Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it. Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee. For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them! If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee. Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

 

[Jarthur001]

Psalms 139:1-24 O LORD, thou hast searched me, and known me. Thou knowest my downsitting and mine uprising, thou understandest my thought afar off. Thou compassest my path and my lying down, and art acquainted with all my ways. For there is not a word in my tongue, but, lo, O LORD, thou knowest it altogether. Thou hast beset me behind and before, and laid thine hand upon me. Such knowledge is too wonderful for me; it is high, I cannot attain unto it. Whither shall I go from thy spirit? or whither shall I flee from thy presence? If I ascend up into heaven, thou art there: if I make my bed in hell, behold, thou art there. If I take the wings of the morning, and dwell in the uttermost parts of the sea; Even there shall thy hand lead me, and thy right hand shall hold me. If I say, Surely the darkness shall cover me; even the night shall be light about me. Yea, the darkness hideth not from thee; but the night shineth as the day: the darkness and the light are both alike to thee. For thou hast possessed my reins: thou hast covered me in my mother's womb. I will praise thee; for I am fearfully and wonderfully made: marvellous are thy works; and that my soul knoweth right well. My substance was not hid from thee, when I was made in secret, and curiously wrought in the lowest parts of the earth. Thine eyes did see my substance, yet being unperfect; and in thy book all my members were written, which in continuance were fashioned, when as yet there was none of them. How precious also are thy thoughts unto me, O God! how great is the sum of them! If I should count them, they are more in number than the sand: when I awake, I am still with thee. Surely thou wilt slay the wicked, O God: depart from me therefore, ye bloody men. For they speak against thee wickedly, and thine enemies take thy name in vain. Do not I hate them, O LORD, that hate thee? and am not I grieved with those that rise up against thee? I hate them with perfect hatred: I count them mine enemies. Search me, O God, and know my heart: try me, and know my thoughts: And see if there be any wicked way in me, and lead me in the way everlasting.

Hello Blammo,

If you had read the thread, you would also know we have talked about this.


But...Thanks..

 

[Jarthur001]

posted 2 times...sorry

 

[Friend of God]

That's funny...I always thought God read Newsweek instead of TIME:smilewinkgrin: