God and TIME

[Brother Bob]

Of course He knew when you and I believe. But...He didn't have to look and see to know. He is the great I AM the self exsiting one and all infomation does not come to Him from others, it comes out from Him. His knowing did not come from our doing. His knowing came from his own decree.

I agree that He didn't have to look to see, He sees all so why would He have to look. The most important is He is there. He saw you while you were in your mother's womb and He sees your death. Again, I have thought about it and He is everlasting to everlasting. The Beginning and the End.

 

[Brother Bob]

No...i think God wrote the Bible, not Calvin.

Hope you really mean that. We are made to wonder at times.

 

[Jarthur001]

I agree that He didn't have to look to see,
He sees all so why would He have to look.
He saw you while you were in your mother's womb
and He sees your death.

Bob,

Not to be picky..ok Yes I am, for if not, I would not say this..

Would you not agree God does not need to see...he knows. His all in all comes from His decrees, and not what He sees. Would you agree with that?

Can he also see these things? Yes. But He knew it because it came from Him, not from us.

 

[Brother Bob]

I agree with both James. The ability to believe certainly was willed of God.

He made the Light. There are hundreds like the following:

Gen 1:4And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

 

[Jarthur001]

Hope you really mean that. We are made to wonder at times.

Bob,
As you know, i never quote John Calvin. I quoted his will one time...not sure why, but I had to look it up on the net just like anyone else, for I had no idea what it said.

I do quote the Bible. I do preach the Bible. You can call Calvinism, anything you want. Calvin didn't write this, he reminded the church what the church had lost though the years. Before Calvin it was St. Augustine and Augustinism. Before Augustine it was called Paulism. Paul was taken to the 3rd heaven and got it from God. God was the one that wrote it.

No need to quote Augustine or Calvin, when I can quote God.

 

[Jarthur001]

I agree with both James. The ability to believe certainly was willed of God.

He made the Light. There are hundreds like the following:

Gen 1:4And God saw the light, that [it was] good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

Bob....

By you saying that...we have come a long way.


In Christ...James

 

[Brother Bob]

Timeless God

I leave it up to you. Just read the Scriptures and make up your own mind!

Psalms, psalm 90
1: LORD, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
2: Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
3: Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.
4: For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
5: Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.
6: In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it is cut down, and withereth.
7: For we are consumed by thine anger, and by thy wrath are we troubled.
8: Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.
9: For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our years as a tale that is told.

John 6:
62: What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63: It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64: But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him. (Especially read this part)!!!!!
65: And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.


Apparently the Father gave them to Him that did "believe", for he knew those from the beginning who didn’t believe so He must of known from the beginning who did "believe". It is amazing how we overlook Scriptures sometimes.

Now, a "timeless God".

Philippians, chapter 3
21: Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.
If we will have a body like His and we will be "timeless" then, so He must be timeless too. But we go a little farther.

Revelation, chapter 10
"1": And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

"2": And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

"3": And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

"4": And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

"5": And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

"6": And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

Now, some may argue now that He is not a "timeless" God but I don’t think they will disagree that He will be "timeless" then.

Hebr: 13
8: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
9: Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.


If all of us will be like unto the Lord and all will be "timeless" then and He changes not then He must be timeless now and has always been timeless if he don't change.

HE IS OMNIPRESENCE AND INFINITE. Peace,

 

[Jarthur001]

Hello Bob,

I leave it up to you. Just read the Scriptures and make up your own mind!

Thanks....and we shall...

Psalms, psalm 90
1: LORD, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
2: Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
3: Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.
4: For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
5: Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.
6: In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it is cut down, and withereth.
7: For we are consumed by thine anger, and by thy wrath are we troubled.
8: Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.
9: For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our years as a tale that is told.

This is the 3rd time in one page this passage has been posted. It is a great verse, but you have overlooked many things in the passage. This passage is very very Calvinistic. I have heard it said before that Calvinism can only be found in Pauls writings. I guess this passage proves that wrong. As it turns out, it is all the way though the Bible.

Anyway..to address your colored type. everlasting to everlasting ....is sempiternal ( that is if the engish is the same as the greek..I have not looked)

John 6:
62: What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63: It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64: But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65: And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Yes Christ knew from the beginning, but He didn't learn this from us. He know because it was His decree. And....just as it says....NO MAN CAN COME UNTO ME EXCEPT IT WERE GIVEN UNTO HIM OF THE FATHER. That is context.

Apparently the Father gave them to Him that did "believe", for he knew those from the beginning who didn’t believe so He must of known from the beginning who did "believe". It is amazing how we overlook Scriptures sometimes.

again...He did knew, but He didn't learn this from us. He knew becaused He caused it. The Father gave them to Him, because the Father choose them. Can you not see this?

Now, a "timeless God".

Philippians, chapter 3
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


If we will have a body like His and we will be "timeless" then, so He must be timeless too. But we go a little farther.

When we have a body that takes no space, we have no need of time. A body that takes no place can walk though walls. Time is not needed at that point.

Revelation, chapter 10
"1": And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

"2": And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

"3": And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

"4": And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

"5": And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

"6": And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:

I rest my case.

8: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

HE IS OMNIPRESENCE AND INFINITE.

This verse is omnipresence but not infinite. We already looked at that.

But again..you proved that God is both in time working, but also outside of time. When He works with Man, He uses His creation for man is part of creation and time is creation. Yet He can go beyond creation and move outside of time.

What a great God we have....


In Christ...James

 

[Blammo]

Bob,
As you know, i never quote John Calvin. I quoted his will one time...not sure why, but I had to look it up on the net just like anyone else, for I had no idea what it said.

I do quote the Bible. I do preach the Bible. You can call Calvinism, anything you want. Calvin didn't write this, he reminded the church what the church had lost though the years. Before Calvin it was St. Augustine and Augustinism. Before Augustine it was called Paulism. Paul was taken to the 3rd heaven and got it from God. God was the one that wrote it.

No need to quote Augustine or Calvin, when I can quote God.

Augustine was Roman Catholic. Calvin was raised Roman Catholic. Now it's starting to make sense. :laugh:

 

[saturneptune]

Blammo,
Do you have any pics of Calvin in a beenie cap swinging an incense burner by a rope?

 

[Blammo]

Blammo,
Do you have any pics of Calvin in a beenie cap swinging an incense burner by a rope?

No, I'm not sure they had many cameras back then. I'll "google" it. :smilewinkgrin:

 

[Brother Bob]

"6": And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer: I rest my case. The "Time no longer was men would have time no longer". I thought everyone knew that James. You are running behind it seems.

Here he is talking about time being to men and not Him and "you rest your case" All your answers are like that, God is timeless Himself but made time for man and can either work in time or out but He Himself is "timeless" now, has always been and will always be "timeless. I see no reason to respond to non Scriptural answers that don't make no sense. I would like to answer you but it all like the follow:

Psalms, psalm 90
1: LORD, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
2: Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
3: Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.
4: For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
5: Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.
6: In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it is cut down, and withereth.
7: For we are consumed by thine anger, and by thy wrath are we troubled.
8: Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.
9: For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our years as a tale that is told.

This is the 3rd time in one page this passage has been posted. It is a great verse, but you have overlooked many things in the passage. This passage is very very Calvinistic. I have heard it said before that Calvinism can only be found in Pauls writings. I guess this passage proves that wrong. As it turns out, it is all the way though the Bible.

Anyway..to address your colored type. everlasting to everlasting ....is sempiternal ( that is if the engish is the same as the greek..I have not looked)

everlasting = infinite (166. aionios ahee-o'-nee-os from 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).)
Psalms 90;
Talking to a lost and backsliding people and the death of man. Talking about "Time is nothing to Him" and you say it is Calvinistic when you been jumping all over the place trying to find a way around a "timeless" God.

John 6:
62: What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63: It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64: But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65: And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Yes Christ knew from the beginning, but He didn't learn this from us. He know because it was His decree. And....just as it says....NO MAN CAN COME UNTO ME EXCEPT IT WERE GIVEN UNTO HIM OF THE FATHER. That is context.

Here you talk about this Scripture being about the Father given them to Christ when the greatest meaning of the Scripture is the Father only gave them who "believed". You miss the whole point that the Father "foresaw" who would believe and who would not. Your understanding of the Scriptures is lacking James!

again...He did knew, but He didn't learn this from us. He knew becaused He caused it. The Father gave them to Him, because the Father choose them. Can you not see this?

Here you admit that He knew who believed and who believed not but as a true Calvinist you had to add to the Scripture "God caused it" when before you posted in bold and large type you would never change a scripture.
(Your quote: I'm keeping the Bible intact. I'm not going to change words like you do. I'm going to keep it is context. I'm not going to "keep quiet". I will preach the Word..like it or not.

Pressing on till He Comes..no matter if Bob wants me gone, quit or anything else you post.
In Christ...James) and then when convenient for you then you put in whatever you need.
comical,

But again..you proved that God is both in time working, but also outside of time. When He works with Man, He uses His creation for man is part of creation and time is creation. Yet He can go beyond creation and move outside of time.

What a great God we have....


In Christ...James

So here you finally admit that God does indeed work outside of time. Make up your mind James and live by what you said about not adding or taking away from the Scriptures.

 

[webdog]

One said God can go forward and backwards in time. This I’m sure is wrong.

How are you "sure"? This statement alone confines God to the very present...man's present...man's time. I never thought in a million years that I, a non calvinist, could EVER believe God was more sovereign than a calvinist

 

[Jarthur001]

Augustine was Roman Catholic. Calvin was raised Roman Catholic. Now it's starting to make sense. :laugh:

Apparently not, since your wrong.

 

[Jarthur001]

Blammo,
Do you have any pics of Calvin in a beenie cap swinging an incense burner by a rope?

Another fine, well worded post.

Now back to the subject.

Tells us why you think God can go back in time.

 

[Jarthur001]

Here he is talking about time being to men and not Him and "you rest your case" All your answers are like that, God is timeless Himself but made time for man and can either work in time or out but He Himself is "timeless" now, has always been and will always be "timeless. I see no reason to respond to non Scriptural answers that don't make no sense. I would like to answer you but it all like the follow:

everlasting = infinite (166. aionios ahee-o'-nee-os from 165; perpetual (also used of past time, or past and future as well):--eternal, for ever, everlasting, world (began).)
Psalms 90;
Talking to a lost and backsliding people and the death of man. Talking about "Time is nothing to Him" and you say it is Calvinistic when you been jumping all over the place trying to find a way around a "timeless" God.

Here you talk about this Scripture being about the Father given them to Christ when the greatest meaning of the Scripture is the Father only gave them who "believed". You miss the whole point that the Father "foresaw" who would believe and who would not. Your understanding of the Scriptures is lacking James!

Here you admit that He knew who believed and who believed not but as a true Calvinist you had to add to the Scripture "God caused it" when before you posted in bold and large type you would never change a scripture.
(Your quote: I'm keeping the Bible intact. I'm not going to change words like you do. I'm going to keep it is context. I'm not going to "keep quiet". I will preach the Word..like it or not.

Pressing on till He Comes..no matter if Bob wants me gone, quit or anything else you post.
In Christ...James) and then when convenient for you then you put in whatever you need.
comical,

So here you finally admit that God does indeed work outside of time. Make up your mind James and live by what you said about not adding or taking away from the Scriptures.

Ponitless post...other then the last line.

Thats just it Bob...you show again you don't read....go back and find out if anywhere I say God is BOTH<<<< I'll give you a hint and say yes.

 

[Jarthur001]

How are you "sure"? This statement alone confines God to the very present...man's present...man's time. I never thought in a million years that I, a non calvinist, could EVER believe God was more sovereign than a calvinist

Yes.

no
no
no

hum...no

 

[Brother Bob]

Hello Bob,

Quote:
I leave it up to you. Just read the Scriptures and make up your own mind!
Thanks....and we shall...

Quote:
Psalms, psalm 90
1: LORD, thou hast been our dwelling place in all generations.
2: Before the mountains were brought forth, or ever thou hadst formed the earth and the world, even from everlasting to everlasting, thou art God.
3: Thou turnest man to destruction; and sayest, Return, ye children of men.
4: For a thousand years in thy sight are but as yesterday when it is past, and as a watch in the night.
5: Thou carriest them away as with a flood; they are as a sleep: in the morning they are like grass which groweth up.
6: In the morning it flourisheth, and groweth up; in the evening it is cut down, and withereth.
7: For we are consumed by thine anger, and by thy wrath are we troubled.
8: Thou hast set our iniquities before thee, our secret sins in the light of thy countenance.
9: For all our days are passed away in thy wrath: we spend our years as a tale that is told.

This is the 3rd time in one page this passage has been posted. It is a great verse, but you have overlooked many things in the passage. This passage is very very Calvinistic. I have heard it said before that Calvinism can only be found in Pauls writings. I guess this passage proves that wrong. As it turns out, it is all the way though the Bible.

Anyway..to address your colored type. everlasting to everlasting ....is sempiternal ( that is if the engish is the same as the greek..I have not looked)

Quote:
John 6:
62: What and if ye shall see the Son of man ascend up where he was before?
63: It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
64: But there are some of you that believe not. For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were that believed not, and who should betray him.
65: And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Yes Christ knew from the beginning, but He didn't learn this from us. He know because it was His decree. And....just as it says....NO MAN CAN COME UNTO ME EXCEPT IT WERE GIVEN UNTO HIM OF THE FATHER. That is context.

Quote:
Apparently the Father gave them to Him that did "believe", for he knew those from the beginning who didn’t believe so He must of known from the beginning who did "believe". It is amazing how we overlook Scriptures sometimes.
again...He did knew, but He didn't learn this from us. He knew becaused He caused it. The Father gave them to Him, because the Father choose them. Can you not see this?

Quote:
Now, a "timeless God".

Philippians, chapter 3
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.


If we will have a body like His and we will be "timeless" then, so He must be timeless too. But we go a little farther.

When we have a body that takes no space, we have no need of time. A body that takes no place can walk though walls. Time is not needed at that point.

Quote:
Revelation, chapter 10
"1": And I saw another mighty angel come down from heaven, clothed with a cloud: and a rainbow was upon his head, and his face was as it were the sun, and his feet as pillars of fire:

"2": And he had in his hand a little book open: and he set his right foot upon the sea, and his left foot on the earth,

"3": And cried with a loud voice, as when a lion roareth: and when he had cried, seven thunders uttered their voices.

"4": And when the seven thunders had uttered their voices, I was about to write: and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Seal up those things which the seven thunders uttered, and write them not.

"5": And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven,

"6": And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer:
I rest my case.

Quote:
8: Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

HE IS OMNIPRESENCE AND INFINITE.



This verse is omnipresence but not infinite. We already looked at that.

But again..you proved that God is both in time working, but also outside of time. When He works with Man, He uses His creation for man is part of creation and time is creation. Yet He can go beyond creation and move outside of time.

What a great God we have....


In Christ...James

Waste of time, this answer to my post make no sense at all.

Go back and read my post again James and try to open your mind up this time. peace

 

[Jarthur001]

No, I'm not sure they had many cameras back then. I'll "google" it. :smilewinkgrin:

If you find a copy, i want 2 ..8x10 glossies. Send them to ,,,


ATT: James
Calvin's Institute Of The Proclaimed Gospel.
1 Soli Deo Gloria Drive
Sola Gratia WV 77777

Make that 3 copies


Thanks...

Solo Christo!...James

 

[Jarthur001]

Waste of time, this answer to my post make no sense at all.

Go back and read my post again James and try to open your mind up this time. peace

ok never mind...

But again..you proved that God is both in time working, but also outside of time. When He works with Man, He uses His creation for man is part of creation and time is creation. Yet He can go beyond creation and move outside of time.

I think the better view is that God is everywhere watching and working. In His creation and out of it.