Although the elect's sins are atoned for by Jesus on the cross, and after we are quickened to a spiritual life, we do still carry our sinful fleshly nature with us. That is what Paul is explaining when he says that we have a warfare going on inside of us. When we do yield ourselves to the lust of our flesh, God commands us to repent of such actions and when he forgives us that is a timely salvation.
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God does not love all mankind
- Thread starter Forest
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So during this time that one is following the flesh and before he repents of it, has he lost his "timely" salvation? What if he dies in this state?
convicted1
Guest
He's a "goner", I guess?
Who knows? I can't study it out because the bible doesn't speak of such a thing as timely salvation nor does it speak of the concept.
Maybe he goes to purgatory or does the limbo.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Wrong. God disciplines his children, whom he does love and will ultimately adopt as his own, but that in no way suggests that God doesn't also express a love and desire for all mankind to come to faith and repentance.
Even Calvinists have historically taught that God indeed does love all mankind, but that he has special or more meaningful love relationship with those who do become his children. Now, we can debate HOW and WHY some become children of God (election/irresistible grace etc), but that doesn't change anything about the fact that God loves all people and that Calvinists have historically supported that position.
convicted1
Guest
Who knows? I can't study it out because the bible doesn't speak of such a thing as timely salvation nor does it speak of the concept.
Maybe he goes to purgatory or does the limbo.
Well, when you play the game "limbo", there's a line that goes, "how low can you go?". If you die a "goner", that's as low as it gets, I reckon.
Those that Christ died for, he will raise them up at the last day without the loss of one, John 6:37-40. As far as eternal salvation is concerned, God looks at those that Christ died for as having no sin, in other words, their sins have been paid for and when we do sin it will not eliminate us from going to heaven but it will cause us to lose our relationship with God until we repent. Losing our relationship with God does not mean that we have lost our eternal salvation.
Not so! Those that Christ died for will never lose their eternal salvation.He's a "goner", I guess?
convicted1
Guest
Wrong. One of His children is still His child, and will never lose that relationship of Father/child. Sure, we'll get the "rod of correction", but never, ever, will we lose our relationship to God for one nanosecond.
convicted1
Guest
Can they lose their "temporal" salvation then?
If you use all of the salvation scriptures to mean eternal you will never get the scriptures to harmonise. Most of the salvation scriptures are refering to timely deliverances. If you are saved (delivered) from this present evil world then it is eternal salvation. If you are delivered from other things, such as, coming unto a knowledge of the truth and being delivered from believing a false doctrine it is a timely salvation. God healing you from an illness is a timely salvation (deliverance).Who knows? I can't study it out because the bible doesn't speak of such a thing as timely salvation nor does it speak of the concept.
Maybe he goes to purgatory or does the limbo.
Apparently this timely salvation didn't apply to the early church or the apostles since they were tortured and killed for Christ's name. God didn't seem to know about timely salvation when Paul asked 3 times to be delivered from the thorn in his flesh and God refused.
If Calvanist are supporting that position, they are interpreting the scriptures wrong. If God wanted all mankind to be saved eternally, all mankind will be saved eternally because he has toe power to carry out all his will. Isa 50:2, Is my hand shortened at all, that it cannot redeem? or have I no power to deliver? Dan 4:35, And all the inhabitants of the earth are reputed as nothing; and he doeth according to his will in the army of heaven, and among the inhabitants of the earth; and none can stay his hand, or say unto him, What doest thou? God says if they have not the Spirit, they are none of his. He does not love or chasten those that are not his. Those that he choose before the foundation of the world were predestinated to the adoption of Children by Christ on the cross.
Really? The ONLY way to have a relationship with God is to be bound to Him and in Him. If you lose your relationship, you have lost your salvation. You are no longer connected to God. He either keeps you in relationship with Him or He doesn't. You can't have it both ways.
All mankind who do not have the Spirit are but natural men and will not, indeed, cannot descern spiritual things and will not seek to serve a spiritual God, 1 Cor 2:14. Ps 10:4 The wicked, through the pride of his countenance, will not seek God, God is not in all his thoughts.
Paul tought a timely salvation in his discourse in Rom chapter 10, by warning those that were children of God and were going about establishing their own righteousness instead of submitting themselves to the righteousness of God. Telling them that if they would confess of that sin they could be delivered (saved) from that sin. That would be a timely salvation. The apostles were delivered many times by timely salvations. God did not take the thron out of Paul because he said that Paul would be humbled by it and he would praise and honour God more in that position. We all turn to God more when God humbles us.
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Does God want you to sin? No.
Do you still sin? Yes.
Does that mean God doesn't have power to carry out his will?
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