God is the Author of sin.

[johnp.]

Moderators....you out there?

This is really troubling me. I smell the smell of bonefires.

Where have I said wrong webdog? 'God even manages to be Heretic of Heretics! He never ceases to amaze me cause He says He does. Isaiah 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.' As a reply to they're saying that God causes evil. THIS IS HERESY. He says He creates evil. What do you try to do? Get me to write in big bold capitals or red it?

You know how to contact the moderators. And I thank you for wasting so much time in keeping off the OP. Heaven and Hell are in uproar are they not?

john.

 

[Jarthur001]

You need a new argument Bro. James. JN 1:3 Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made.

Rom 11:32 For God has bound all men over to disobedience...

john.

John 1:3 is talking about creation..no? God made the world...all agree.

What is sin? I have never seen sin it self.

Tell you what. Pick up about a pound of sin, and send it to me at this address.

James...The Big Tall Guy
1234 Main St.
Anywhere USA, 98765


Its like running. Running is a action, and not made of matter. So if this is what is meant by God is the Author of Sin, I see you are wrong here.

 

[npetreley]

What is meant by the word Author?

Sin is not matter. Sin takes up no space. Sin does not have a life span.

So...what is meant when someone says...God is the Author of sin?

Let me cut right to the chase, if you will. Here's the disconnect as I perceive it:

From the "God is not the author of sin" camp: God cannot lie. Therefore if you associate God with lying in any way, you blaspheme.

The problem with the above opinion is that it is impossible to support, scripturally.

1 Kings 22:23
Therefore look! The LORD has put a lying spirit in the mouth of all these prophets of yours, and the LORD has declared disaster against you.”

In 1 Kings 22, God is not lying, nor could He lie. God is truth, and He cannot possibly lie. However, He put a lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets to accomplish His GOOD purpose.

The problem is that some people believe that if God ordains a lie, or disobedience, or anything else we consider "bad", then God is guilty by association and the person who says that God ordains such things is therefore guilty of blasphemy.

Unfortunately, you have the verse right above to prove that God actually does ordain things like lies in order to accomplish His good purpose. Is lying not a sin? Yet here we have God putting a lying spirit in the mouth of prophets. God is not, Himself, lying -- He cannot lie. But although it was suggested by a spirit, and approved by God, He takes full credit for it in the verse above. Or do we not trust what the Bible says? Is it fallible in this point because someone doesn't like the implication? Or did the LORD really put a lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets?

In my opinion, that ALMOST nails the disconnect we're having communicating.

Here's the real nail, in my opinion: Some people can't comprehend the fact that God has the right to do whatever He wants with His creation. Once again, in my opinion, it all comes down to trusting Him.

 

[Christlifter]

hmmm...

http://www.bloomingtonrpchurch.org/refdocpre/17.htm

The objection may be raised that if God has foreordained the entire course of events in this world He must be the Author of Sin. To begin with, we readily admit that the existence of sin in a universe which is under the control of a God who is infinite in His wisdom, power, holiness, and justice, is an inscrutable mystery which we in our present state of knowledge cannot fully explain. As yet we only see through a glass darkly. Sin can never be explained on the grounds of logic or reason, for it is essentially illogical and unreasonable. The mere fact that sin exists has often been urged by atheists and skeptics as an argument not merely against Calvinism but against theism in general.

 

[npetreley]

This is really troubling me. I smell the smell of bonefires.

I don't know if we agree on all points, but better to burn with you than be forced to become a free-willer. My only request is we be burned at a porterhouse steak. That's my favorite.

 

[Jarthur001]

Let me cut right to the chase, if you will. Here's the disconnect as I perceive it:

From the "God is not the author of sin" camp: God cannot lie. Therefore if you associate God with lying in any way, you blaspheme.

The problem with the above opinion is that it is impossible to support, scripturally.



In 1 Kings 22, God is not lying, nor could He lie. God is truth, and He cannot possibly lie. However, He put a lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets to accomplish His GOOD purpose.

The problem is that some people believe that if God ordains a lie, or disobedience, or anything else we consider "bad", then God is guilty by association and the person who says that God ordains such things is therefore guilty of blasphemy.

Unfortunately, you have the verse right above to prove that God actually does ordain things like lies in order to accomplish His good purpose. Is lying not a sin? Yet here we have God putting a lying spirit in the mouth of prophets. God is not, Himself, lying -- He cannot lie. But although it was suggested by a spirit, and approved by God, He takes full credit for it in the verse above. Or do we not trust what the Bible says? Is it fallible in this point because someone doesn't like the implication? Or did the LORD really put a lying spirit in the mouth of the prophets?

In my opinion, that ALMOST nails the disconnect we're having communicating.

Here's the real nail, in my opinion: Some people can't comprehend the fact that God has the right to do whatever He wants with His creation. Once again, in my opinion, it all comes down to trusting Him.

Good verse.


Now look and what you did. Now I will have to study this better.

**************

OK...I'm back

Sorry, this still is not going to work for me.

1 Kings 22:23
Ver. 23. Now therefore behold, the Lord hath put a lying spirit in the mouths of all these thy prophets,....

GILL...........

That is, suffered the lying spirit to suggest a lie to them, and sent them strong delusions to believe that lie, whose minds were disposed at any rate to flatter Ahab, to whom they told it; which was the way designed to bring him to the ruin appointed for him:

Even Gill stops short on this one.

I will agree that God does entice, if you will, sinful man to act out Gods will. This is seen in pharaoh life. But it is man that sins. Man is pulled by their own lust. God know Pharaoh world sin, in fact God counted on it, and therefore kept asking Pharaoh, to "let my people go." God used Pharaohs sin nature, to bring glory to Him.

In the case of Kings...God does indeed place a lying spirit to SUGGEST a lie. It is the evil sinful heart that lies. Now God also know what would happen when He did this. Folks..this total depravity 101. If mans heart was right, man would not listen to the suggestion.

 

[webdog]

This is a doctrine held my many Baptist. The MODs will not close this down...only because you do not agree.

I would hope they would ban those who believe this garbage regardess of being baptist or not, not because I don't agree, but because it is heretical and blasphemes God.

 

[Jarthur001]

I would hope they would ban those who believe this garbage regardess of being baptist or not, not because I don't agree, but because it is heretical and blasphemes God.

I feel we are all closer then we think.

No one denies God allows sin.
Can God stop sin? Yes!! He has shown that He can many times in the Bible. But does He always stop sin? NO!!

Now up to this point, I feel all ..or nearly all of us will agree.

 

[Blammo]

Good verse.


Now look and what you did. Now I will have to study this better.

**************

OK...I'm back

Sorry, this still is not going to work for me.



GILL...........



Even Gill stops short on this one.

I will agree that God does entice, if you will, sinful man to act out Gods will. This is seen in pharaoh life. But it is man that sins. Man is pulled by their own lust. God know Pharaoh world sin, in fact God counted on it, and therefore kept asking Pharaoh, to "let my people go." God used Pharaohs sin nature, to bring glory to Him.

In the case of Kings...God does indeed place a lying spirit to SUGGEST a lie. It is the evil sinful heart that lies. Now God also know what would happen when He did this. Folks..this total depravity 101. If mans heart was right, man would not listen to the suggestion.

James,

I'll bet you never thought you'd hear this from me, but, amen and amen.

 

[J.D.]

http://www.bloomingtonrpchurch.org/refdocpre/17.htm

The objection may be raised that if God has foreordained the entire course of events in this world He must be the Author of Sin. To begin with, we readily admit that the existence of sin in a universe which is under the control of a God who is infinite in His wisdom, power, holiness, and justice, is an inscrutable mystery which we in our present state of knowledge cannot fully explain. As yet we only see through a glass darkly. Sin can never be explained on the grounds of logic or reason, for it is essentially illogical and unreasonable. The mere fact that sin exists has often been urged by atheists and skeptics as an argument not merely against Calvinism but against theism in general.

Indeed, the "problem of evil" has been one of the core issues debated by theologians and philosophers of all stripes throughout human history.

You are right, skeptics think they have an angle in declaring God as illogical due to the existance of evil. However, the only theological system that offers a viable answer to the skeptic is called "Calvinism". Evil exists because God has decreed it to exist.

What we are debating here, at least among the Calvinist family, is how God's decree is executed, not whether it is in fact decreed.

 

[Blammo]

One good thing J.D., johnp, and NP have done for Calvinism is make the low-cal version of it seem a whole lot more innocuous to me. I actually think I may become low-cal afterall.