God Knows The Future

[Van]

Why would I argue against a false premise. The verses you present do not support your view Van. Think through what you are presenting. But I doubt that you will do that.

Here is a clue as to why your view is flawed, do a word study on believe.

All against the man argumentation, false argumentation. This seems to be all you have. Give it a rest.
Still you do not address the biblical evidence for inherent omniscience. Nor to you offer support from scripture for your obviously false assertion.

Did I say He will remember no more forever or did the Bible say that?
Did Jesus say He did not know the time of His return?
Did God say, "now I know" demonstrating that He had just learned?

Stop ignoring and nullifying scripture with your bogus unstudied false doctrine.

When the same point is made numerous times in scripture, the context is clear.

Bogus Doctrine of Omniscience = God knows everything imaginable.
Biblical Doctrine of Omniscience = God knows everything He chooses to know.

This is not rocket science.

 

[Silverhair]

How can anyone even know if one is saved? You see if one thinks they have salvation, and it being possible to lose. None would be able to know with any certainty one will not lose salvation before one dies.

That is why we are told to make our salvation sure. We are not to trust in a once upon a time confession of faith. We are to work out our salvation through continued faith in the faithful one.

OSAS just leads to a person getting complacent and falling back into the ways of the world. It is the I have nothing to worry about I have my ticket, I have my fire insurance. I can live anyway I want no worries.

 

[Silverhair]

All against the man argumentation, false argumentation. This seems to be all you have. Give it a rest.
Still you do not address the biblical evidence for inherent omniscience. Nor to you offer support from scripture for your obviously false assertion.

Did I say He will remember no more forever or did the Bible say that?
Did Jesus say He did not know the time of His return?
Did God say, "now I know" demonstrating that He had just learned?

Stop ignoring and nullifying scripture with your bogus unstudied false doctrine.

When the same point is made numerous times in scripture, the context is clear.

Bogus Doctrine of Omniscience = God knows everything imaginable.
Biblical Doctrine of Omniscience = God knows everything He chooses to know.

This is not rocket science.

Omniscience

The quality or state of being omniscient; the quality of knowing everything; -- an attribute peculiar to God.

So you continue to say God is only semi-omniseient. He does not know everything. As long as you hold to that view you are in error.

By your comments you sound like a Molinist.

 

[Van]

Omniscience

The quality or state of being omniscient; the quality of knowing everything; -- an attribute peculiar to God.

So you continue to say God is only semi-omniseient. He does not know everything. As long as you hold to that view you are in error.

By your comments you sound like a Molinist.

LOL why not address the fact I define Omniscience biblically and you unbiblically?

 

[37818]

That is why we are told to make our salvation sure.

If OSAS is false as you profess, making one's salvation sure is never possible.

 

[Silverhair]

LOL why not address the fact I define Omniscience biblically and you unbiblically?

You are coming up with your special meaning for omniscience now. Well that explains a lot. As I said before you are becoming more and more a calvinist. You each have your own special dictionary.

 

[Silverhair]

If OSAS is false as you profess, making one's salvation sure is never possible.

So your telling us that no one knew their salvation was sure until OSAS came along? It is a man-made concept. Eternal security depends upon ones continuing faith in the faithful one.

Because I believe my salvation is sure.

As long as one believes in the faithful one they have eternal security if they reject that faith then logically they do not have eternal security.

Joh 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

believes G4100 (G5723)
G5723
Tense-Present See [G5774]
Voice-Active See [G5784]
Mood -Participle See [G5796]

G5774
Tense-Present
The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. The action is Progressive (Continuous)

Joh 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

1Jn 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

So you see it is not just that you believe but you continue to believe for eternal life.

 

[37818]

So your telling us that no one knew their salvation was sure until OSAS came along?

No, you are the one arguing that here.

Because I believe my salvation is sure.

It can never be sure if it is always possible for the salvation to be lost.

 

[Van]

You are coming up with your special meaning for omniscience now. Well that explains a lot. As I said before you are becoming more and more a calvinist. You each have your own special dictionary.

LOL, did I come up with "inherent omniscience? What an unstudied bogus claim.

Some modern Christian theologians argue that God's omniscience is inherent rather than total, and that God chooses to limit his omniscience in order to preserve the free will and dignity of his creatures. John Calvin, among other theologians of the 16th century, comfortable with the definition of God as being omniscient in the total sense, in order for worthy beings' abilities to choose freely, embraced the doctrine of predestination. ​

Thus Silverhair embraces the Calvinist view while falsely charging me with that bogus viewpoint

 

[Van]

Omniscience = the capacity to know everything rather than actually knowing everything imaginable because scripture indicates God can remember no more forever, thus can choose not to know everything. The other view is unbiblical, unstudied and errant.

 

[MrW]

Mat 13:5 Other seeds fell on rocky ground, where they did not have much soil, and they sprang up quickly, since they had no depth of soil.
Mat 13:6 But when the sun rose, they were scorched; and since they had no root, they withered away.
Mat 13:20 As for what was sown on rocky ground, this is the one who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy;
Mat 13:21 yet such a person has no root, but endures only for a while, and when trouble or persecution arises on account of the word, that person immediately falls away.

Mat 13:7 Other seeds fell among thorns, and the thorns grew up and choked them.
Mat 13:22 As for what was sown among thorns, this is the one who hears the word, but the cares of the world and the lure of wealth choke the word, and it yields nothing.

They hear and believe but then fall away for various reasons. OSAS is a false teaching. Eternal security for those that continue to believe is truth but note the condition, continue to believe

You’re using examples of people who were never saved. Christ didn’t save anyone and then forget them.

He said, “I never knew you.”

Titus 2:4. God cannot lie.

Only the group that brought forth were born again. One out of four. 25%. Probably not that high of a percentage in Americans professing to be going to Heaven.

God does not save a man, give him the new birth, unless He is going to take him all the way home forever. A faith that finally falters was faulty from the first.

 

[MrW]

So your telling us that no one knew their salvation was sure until OSAS came along? It is a man-made concept. Eternal security depends upon ones continuing faith in the faithful one.

Because I believe my salvation is sure.

As long as one believes in the faithful one they have eternal security if they reject that faith then logically they do not have eternal security.

Joh 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

believes G4100 (G5723)
G5723
Tense-Present See [G5774]
Voice-Active See [G5784]
Mood -Participle See [G5796]

G5774
Tense-Present
The present tense represents a simple statement of fact or reality viewed as occurring in actual time. The action is Progressive (Continuous)

Joh 3:15 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life.

1Jn 5:13 These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

So you see it is not just that you believe but you continue to believe for eternal life.

“Because I believe…”, thus you are depending on yourself for salvation. Not me. I know I am saved because God’s Word is true; He cannot lie. Again, Titus 2:4.

 

[MrW]

Omniscience = the capacity to know everything rather than actually knowing everything imaginable because scripture indicates God can remember no more forever, thus can choose not to know everything. The other view is unbiblical, unstudied and errant.

Then God had best not read His Bible because He will then remember what He theoretically developed amnesia about.

Be real. God knows David and Paul committed terrible sins. He does not hold those sins against. They have been forgiven, not to be remembered against them, but He knows it happened, and He knew it would happen before it happened.

 

[Revmitchell]

1 John 3:20b ...God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything.

John 21:17 Lord you know all things...

"God knows the whole of history at once, simultaneously because not limited by time and succession, but God also knows what part of history is past today and what is future."

Evangelical Dictionary of Theology, Walter a. Elwell, pg. 494

"God is all knowing. The term "Omniscient" (all-knowing) is sometimes used....Statements in scripture of God forgetting a person's sin are not lapses in God's knowledge but nonliteral, true statements of His choice to no longer hold people accountable for their sin and guilt because it has been covered or forgiven.

" Christian Theology. Biblical, Historical and Systematic, Adam Harwood, pg.199

 

[Silverhair]

No, you are the one arguing that here.

It can never be sure if it is always possible for the salvation to be lost.

Your the one arguing for OSAS not me 37. One can be sure of their salvation when they continue to believe. As I said under your view a person can say a few words and they get the ticket and live like they want as it does not matter. It's all good your going to heaven even when you live like the devil.

 

[Silverhair]

LOL, did I come up with "inherent omniscience? What an unstudied bogus claim.

Some modern Christian theologians argue that God's omniscience is inherent rather than total, and that God chooses to limit his omniscience in order to preserve the free will and dignity of his creatures. John Calvin, among other theologians of the 16th century, comfortable with the definition of God as being omniscient in the total sense, in order for worthy beings' abilities to choose freely, embraced the doctrine of predestination. ​

Thus Silverhair embraces the Calvinist view while falsely charging me with that bogus viewpoint

This is what I posted regarding
Omniscience
The quality or state of being omniscient; the quality of knowing everything; -- an attribute peculiar to God.

Where do you see "inherent omniscience" in that Van? You really should not spread your false accusations Van. You will be held to account for them.

 

[Silverhair]

You’re using examples of people who were never saved. Christ didn’t save anyone and then forget them.

He said, “I never knew you.”

Titus 2:4. God cannot lie.

Only the group that brought forth were born again. One out of four. 25%. Probably not that high of a percentage in Americans professing to be going to Heaven.

God does not save a man, give him the new birth, unless He is going to take him all the way home forever. A faith that finally falters was faulty from the first.

Well it seems Christ got it wrong so you will have to be sure to correct Him when you can. You should read Luk 8:5-15 and pay attention to what is said of the 2nd, 3rd, & 4th persons. Note who is said to believe.

You were referring to Mat 7:23 with this quote “I never knew you.” But it really does not help your case of OSAS. Christ made the comment to people that professed faith but did not in fact actually believe in Him. Context shows that they went through the motions of faith/belief much as a number of our false preachers today.

 

[Silverhair]

“Because I believe…”, thus you are depending on yourself for salvation. Not me. I know I am saved because God’s Word is true; He cannot lie. Again, Titus 2:4.

No, I am depending of the faithful one to save me because I believe.

It is Tit 2:14 you are referring to I am sure but you should read that verse in context. Tit 2:11-14. We see it is the grace of God that brings salvation and we know this is through faith as we are told in Eph 2:8 "For by grace you have been saved through faith".

Notice what we see in Joh 3:36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him."
He who believes {present tense = continues to believe} will be saved. He who does not believe {present tense = continues not to believe} will be lost.

So in this verse we see that to be saved it is not just good enough to believe at one time but you have to continue to believe to reach final/eternal salvation.

And those that are finally lost are so because they have continued to refuse to trust in God.

 

[MrW]

To the lost: I never knew you.

To the saved: He that believes has (present possession) eternal life (not temporary).

Thus, if you die lost, you were never saved.

If you are saved, it’s eternal.

If you can’t save yourself, how can you think you are able to KEEP yourself saved?

You can’t. Christ keeps His own.

2 Corinthian 5:17. John 3:7. That’s a believer, a believer saved by God’s miracle of new birth, CANNOT cease to believe.

 

[Silverhair]

To the lost: I never knew you.

To the saved: He that believes has (present possession) eternal life (not temporary).

Thus, if you die lost, you were never saved.

If you are saved, it’s eternal.

If you can’t save yourself, how can you think you are able to KEEP yourself saved?

You can’t. Christ keeps His own.

2 Corinthian 5:17. John 3:7. That’s a believer, a believer saved by God’s miracle of new birth, CANNOT cease to believe.

You say they cannot cease to believe, why? Did they loose their free will?

Did you note the key word in that verse "IF" when someone choose to reject the salvation they had does God force them to go to heaven? Under your scenario He does. Does that sound like love to you?

Your OSAS has not biblical support. You have to read it into the text.