"Fools rush in where angels fear to tread." I know its not bible, but it is a sound teaching to adhere to, imo.
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God looks backward to the Future
- Thread starter KUWN
- Start date
Absolutely
Obfuscation posts, off topic change of subject posts.
Time travel theology and Crystal Ball theology are false doctrines, held by those either duped or demonic.
Apparently you do no grasp the truth from scripture. Time travel theology and Crystal Ball theology are false doctrines, held by those either duped or demonic.
God knows that no plan of His can be thwarted by humans. So when He says something in the future will happen, i.e. when He declares the end circumstance beforehand, from the beginning, He knows He will cause that end, that circumstance to occur.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
Apparently you don’t believe that God is able to see the future.
You may mock God’s ability to see the future, by calling it a crystal ball. But you are attributing to God the limitations of men.
I can also say of you that you do not grasp the truths of Scripture, but that doesn’t help the discussion. It is a personal attack against my intellect and not relevant to the discussion. Once more you address me and not the subject matter, you just call me duped or demonic. WOW!! Way to accelerate the conversation.
Since you are in the minority with this opinion, would you care to expound on why God doesn’t know what is going to happen in the future but for His determination.
Now Van appears to be a determinist.
Give me a break.
Did I say God is not able to see the future? Nope. So you make up a falsehood and apply it to me. You do not behave like an honest broker.
Do I mock God, or do I honor God by holding to what He tells us, and do not add the conjecture of people.
Of course I do not grasp every truth in scripture. So what, I am NOT a prophet. The issue is the truth concerning how God says He declares the end from the beginning. You have offered nothing but ad homenims.
I said those who hold to time travel theology and crystal ball theology are either duped or demonic. I did NOT attribute that condition to you, unless you hold to those obviously false doctrines.
Lastly you charge me with another subject changing charge.
God knows that no plan of His can be thwarted by humans. So when He says something in the future will happen, i.e. when He declares the end circumstance beforehand, from the beginning, He knows He will cause that end, that circumstance to occur. So He knows the future that He will cause.
Again, folks, the doctrine I espouse is called "Inherent Omniscience." God can know whatever He chooses to know, but He can choose not to know things, such as forgiven sins. This view contrasts with the dark ages view that God's omniscience was total, everything imaginable. However this second view is not supported by scripture.
Definitions from the Internet:
- inherent omniscience the ability to know anything that one chooses to know and can be known
- total omniscience actually knowing everything that can be known.
Ben1445
Well-Known Member
God can choose to know what ever He wants to is nothing more than selective crystal ball theology. You have just made it palatable to your own doctrine and you don’t call it what you don’t like to call it. But it is the same thing just part time omniscience instead of selective forgiveness and forgetting.
Good grief, instead of questioning me, try supporting your false doctrine from scripture. Either God can forgive and forget, as stated in scripture, or God must know everything imaginable, as stated in crystal ball theology. Take your pick.
Good grief, instead of questioning me, try supporting your false doctrine from scripture. Either God can forgive and forget, as stated in scripture, or God must know everything imaginable, as stated in crystal ball theology. Take your pick.
God has no beginning, He always existed. God has no end, He will always exist. Do these truths support the idea that God's spiritual realm does not have sequence, first this, then that? Nope. It has been made up and then falsely claimed. The souls in God's realm were aware of the passage of "time" because they asked "how long" would it be until something happened. See Revelation 6:10. There scripture teaches God's realm experiences "time" but perhaps not exactly the same as we experience within God's created realm.
Armchair Apologist
Active Member
You are speaking of two completely different things here! I am not sure you have caught it and perhaps it is not what you have intended?
God ALONE dwells outside the realm of space and time existing in the "Eternal Present." Therefore Jesus gets to say things like "Before Abraham was, I am!
You and I are created beings so we will always have some sense of time just as the example you have quoted in Rev 6:10. For us, there will never will be a time when time no longer exists!
Therefore, according to God, we are "Chosen in him before the foundation of the world" but for us, we see a timeline where we were once dead in sin, came under conviction, and turned to Christ in repentance and faith and for us, this was the moment of our salvation and for us, this is very much true!
Does God decree all things which come to pass? I would have to say absolutely so long as this is properly defined and understood. There are somethings which God actively decrees and some things of which he allows (passively decrees).
Do we have a free will? Absolutely we do! And we will stand before God and give an account of everything. The question we must ask though is does God's sovereignty have any impact upon our free will or is God limited and bound by decisions that we make?
Now, how do we reconcile all of this?
1) No need to worry whether I comprehend your viewpoint, try defending it.
2) Scripture does NOT say nor suggest God exists in the "Eternal Present." That is "Time Travel Theology" which has no support from scripture.
3) I have shown, with Revelation 6:10 time of some sort exists in the eternal realm of God, including the expectation God was aware of the passage of time in the eternal realm, and you claim that does not apply to God, but offer nothing but conjecture.
4) Again, we as individuals were NOT chosen and put into Him, as when after we had been physically created, we had NOT received mercy, 1 Peter 2:9-10. To change scripture and claim it means we were NOT aware we had received mercy, is simply changing scripture to fit man-made doctrine.
5) No scripture says or suggests God degrees all things. Again you just made that up. Next you claim to allow something is the same as to predestine something. Utter nonsense.
6) Scripture does NOT teach we have a totally free will. He allows us to operate within His purview. For example, if we harden our heart such that we no longer can understand the gospel, like soil #1 of Matthew 13, we are no longer "free" to will to believe the gospel.
7) We reconcile our differences by citing specific scripture which supports our view.