because you cannot answer it
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
God Loved the World (fallen mankind) in this way...
- Thread starter Van
- Start date
- Status
By God the Father calling him out of unbelief unto belief giving him the Spirit of Truth and he thus believes Jesus is, the Christ, the Son of God raised from the dead..
MHO
Not worth much but is what it is.
I believe Paul, according to 1 Tim 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious: but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief, was going down the road to Damascus in unbelief, dead to God, to do the so stated things when God the Father through his Son Jesus called him, showing him he was blind both in spirit and in the flesh and translated him unto belief, by giving him the Spirit of Truth, the Holy Spirit.
Dear Bro. Van,
Here is a recent article that was published at the Founders Journal that I wrote on Justification. I thought it might give some perspective on the OP you offered.
The Most Important Question One Can Ask!
Let me know if it adds anything to the discussion.
rd
New Living Translation
Jesus told them, "This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent."
NET Bible
Jesus replied, "This is the deed God requires--to believe in the one whom he sent."
Weymouth New Testament
"This," replied Jesus, "is above all the thing that God requires--that you should be believers in Him whom He has sent."
Here are three versions that make a stab at "the work of God." Most others translate it ambiguously, leaving open to interpretation whether it refers to work God does or work God requires us to do. Contextually of course it is obvious it refers to work God requires us to do.
But the lesser point is that the phrase believe into Him (or into the One) appears again in John.
Jesus told them, "This is the only work God wants from you: Believe in the one he has sent."
NET Bible
Jesus replied, "This is the deed God requires--to believe in the one whom he sent."
Weymouth New Testament
"This," replied Jesus, "is above all the thing that God requires--that you should be believers in Him whom He has sent."
Here are three versions that make a stab at "the work of God." Most others translate it ambiguously, leaving open to interpretation whether it refers to work God does or work God requires us to do. Contextually of course it is obvious it refers to work God requires us to do.
But the lesser point is that the phrase believe into Him (or into the One) appears again in John.
Next the phrase appears in John 8:30, "As He was speaking these things, many believed into Him." Note I have used the primary meaning of "eis" (into) rather than "in" or "on" which are the choices of the vast majority of translations.
Duality, where it is possible John had more than one meaning in mind, is extremely difficult to translate unambiguously. It is likely that "into Him" and similar constructions, might only refer to the action of the believer to put his or her trust in the name of Christ, and not also imply the action of God to credit that faith as righteousness and transfer them into Christ. Sometimes the context points to duality, John 3:16 for example, where the result of belief ( transfer) is also indicated.
In John 8:30, the context (John 8:31) suggests the many, or at least some of the many, had not been put into Christ at that time.
Duality, where it is possible John had more than one meaning in mind, is extremely difficult to translate unambiguously. It is likely that "into Him" and similar constructions, might only refer to the action of the believer to put his or her trust in the name of Christ, and not also imply the action of God to credit that faith as righteousness and transfer them into Christ. Sometimes the context points to duality, John 3:16 for example, where the result of belief ( transfer) is also indicated.
In John 8:30, the context (John 8:31) suggests the many, or at least some of the many, had not been put into Christ at that time.
Last edited:
Last edited:
Bro. Van,
It seems to me that this OP may be a bit misplaced. Should we not be discussing what it means to "believe" first before we discuss the phrase "believe into him"?
I am sure there has been much discussion down through church history as to what the preposition may of may not mean?
What say ye, is there not different types and levels of "believing?"
rd
What is a preposition?
Is it not that which pre - positions (governing, showing the relationship) of one noun to another element in the sentence called the object?
The use of the preposition between "whosoever believes" and "him" has the verb found in "believes." The action is not found in the preposition, because both the noun and the object are stationary. The "whosoever" is shown in relationship to the "Him" and not in some action.
How is that relationship established? One believes.
It would be very appropriate then to discuss just what the word "believes" may involve, before one could undertake other discourse on the "whosoever" or how the "whosoever" is shown in relationship to "Him."
Is it not that which pre - positions (governing, showing the relationship) of one noun to another element in the sentence called the object?
The use of the preposition between "whosoever believes" and "him" has the verb found in "believes." The action is not found in the preposition, because both the noun and the object are stationary. The "whosoever" is shown in relationship to the "Him" and not in some action.
How is that relationship established? One believes.
It would be very appropriate then to discuss just what the word "believes" may involve, before one could undertake other discourse on the "whosoever" or how the "whosoever" is shown in relationship to "Him."
Last edited:
The Archangel
Well-Known Member
And yet Van probably has no idea why "eis" is used here instead of "en."
The Archangel
Matt 19:16 And, behold, one came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life?
And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
Luke 18:18 And a certain ruler asked him, saying, Good Master, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?
The, common denominator, answer, Matt 19:26 But Jesus beheld them, and said unto them, With men this is impossible; but with God all things are possible.
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people: And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest. For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more Heb 8:10-12
Does this make sense?
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that h whosoever believeth in (into) him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to his purpose.
BTW I am seriously asking if that makes sense, for I am not sure? I wasn't the best English grammar student.
Strong’s Definitions [?](Strong’s Definitions Legend)
εἰς eis, ice; a primary preposition; to or into (indicating the point reached or entered), of place, time, or (figuratively) purpose (result, etc.); also in adverbial phrases:—(abundant-)ly, against, among, as, at, (back-)ward, before, by, concerning, +continual, + far more exceeding, for (intent, purpose), fore, + forth, in (among, at, unto, -so much that, -to), to the intent that, + of one mind, + never, of, (up-)on, +perish, + set at one again, (so) that, therefore(-unto), throughout, til, to (be, the end, -ward), (here-)until(-to), …ward, (where-)fore, with.
Last edited:
Sadly, nearly all the posts are addressing my behavior rather than the subject, How does a worthless sinner believe into Christ.
Has anyone admitted God and God alone puts those whose faith He has credited as righteousness into Christ? Nope So step one is to address this view.
The answer lies here:
John 16:7-9
King James Version (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.
8 And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
The natural man cannot understand the spiritual things of God, and the Gospel heads that list. It is the ministry of the Comforter that ministers to the unbeliever (v.9), bringing conviction of sin (that we are sinful and separated from God), righteousness (that He is righteous), and judgment (that we are headed for eternal judgment). It is at that point that men respond, either yielding to the truth shown them by God, or rejecting Him (doing despite unto the Spirit of Grace, Hebrews 10:29).
God bless.
Looking at John 16:9, contextually the absence of belief, rather than God putting them into Christ, appears to be the intended message, so translating "eis" as in or on conveys the contextual idea. Has anyone admitted God and God alone puts those whose faith He has credited as righteousness into Christ? Nope So step one is to address this view.
How does a worthless sinner believe into Christ?
How does a worthless sinner believe into Christ?
SheepWhisperer
Active Member
The King James calls Him God's "only begotten" Son. Anyway, how does a lost sinner "believe" on anything? The evolutionist believes in evolution, the Hindus believe they might come back as a cow(so they don't eat any) and Muslims(the sold-out fundamentalists anyway) believe so strongly in their false, man-made god that they're willing to strap bombs on and blow themselves to smithereens for him! Did "Allah" enable them to have such strong faith? No, he doesn't exist. What does then? God almighty put the capacity for faith in ALL human beings and it's up to us what we do with it. We all believe in something. Will you believe on Allah, Buddha, or SELF, or will you believe on Jesus? Hey, the Calvies are dead set on believing that God picked out a few for salvation and chose not to "enable" the rest. That's their prerogative! We all believe what WE choose. The thing is, God JUDGES all of our choices in the end.
More appeals to the unreferenced past, more dodging and obfuscation, but no answer to the fundamental question of Christianity.
How does a worthless sinner believe into Christ? Do we need to know Greek and Hebrew or can we grasp the gospel from a translation? Ever noticed when we are said to be believing, the verb is not passive, as it would be if the Cal "gift of faith" doctrine was not in error. How about the apparently deeply hidden secret that we must be drawn by the Father and we must have heard and learned from the Father, and we must believe on the Father. What else does scripture teach?
How does a worthless sinner believe into Christ? Do we need to know Greek and Hebrew or can we grasp the gospel from a translation? Ever noticed when we are said to be believing, the verb is not passive, as it would be if the Cal "gift of faith" doctrine was not in error. How about the apparently deeply hidden secret that we must be drawn by the Father and we must have heard and learned from the Father, and we must believe on the Father. What else does scripture teach?
Difficulty comes in John 3:16 when those who want to place some action of human volition into that which activates God's love.
God already loved that which did not love Him.
God already established the reconciliation with those who would not be reconciled.
God already established the reward of those who were reconciled.
The basic question then is who is reconciled to God?
Those who believe.
Who is not reconciled to God?
Those who do not believe.
Therefore, the question is not the matter of the word "In" but the word believe.
No one who was an unbeliever became a believer merely by changing their mind.
There must FIRST occur change of the very core in which all perspectives and all "truths" are formed has occurred.
No human has the authority within them self to make such a lasting change.
Rather, as Paul states, “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” and the RESULTS are belief, confession, and salvation.
John 3:16 declares that those that believe are in the relationship with God and that results in reward.
There is no "action" by those that believe, but the statement of the results of belief.
Again, the discussion should be upon the word "believe" and if one of their own self ability has the self authority to self generate some belief that gets God's attention.
Or, does the Word of God being both "In the heart" and "In the mouth" RESULT in belief and confession "about" salvation.
The same word for "In, into, about," is used in John 3:16 and Romans 10. It is a preposition used regularly in the NT.
God already loved that which did not love Him.
God already established the reconciliation with those who would not be reconciled.
God already established the reward of those who were reconciled.
The basic question then is who is reconciled to God?
Those who believe.
Who is not reconciled to God?
Those who do not believe.
Therefore, the question is not the matter of the word "In" but the word believe.
No one who was an unbeliever became a believer merely by changing their mind.
There must FIRST occur change of the very core in which all perspectives and all "truths" are formed has occurred.
No human has the authority within them self to make such a lasting change.
Rather, as Paul states, “The word is near you; it is in your mouth and in your heart,” and the RESULTS are belief, confession, and salvation.
John 3:16 declares that those that believe are in the relationship with God and that results in reward.
There is no "action" by those that believe, but the statement of the results of belief.
Again, the discussion should be upon the word "believe" and if one of their own self ability has the self authority to self generate some belief that gets God's attention.
Or, does the Word of God being both "In the heart" and "In the mouth" RESULT in belief and confession "about" salvation.
The same word for "In, into, about," is used in John 3:16 and Romans 10. It is a preposition used regularly in the NT.
- Status