Do "the results of the curse,' or the curse itself-- or curruptability itself-- exist outside of God's sovereignty? That's the only way He did not make them. And if they are independent of His sovereignty, how will He ever do away with them?-- or will there always be a battle against them?-- in which case, if we will always be capable of corruption, then-- if we're the same beings who just won't go straight 100% of the time-- sooner or later in the thousands, millions, billions ... of years we will fall to it [corruptability capability] and be "kicked out" perhaps a la Satan.
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God made EVERYTHING?
- Thread starter Alcott
- Start date
Do "the results of the curse,' or the curse itself-- or curruptability itself-- exist outside of God's sovereignty? That's the only way He did not make them. And if they are independent of His sovereignty, how will He ever do away with them?-- or will there always be a battle against them?-- in which case, if we will always be capable of corruption, then-- if we're the same beings who just won't go straight 100% of the time-- sooner or later in the thousands, millions, billions ... of years we will fall to it [corruptability capability] and be "kicked out" perhaps a la Satan.
Nothing can exist outside of God's control.
From J.P.Boyce;
The following statements, however, may be made:
The Scriptural authority for the doctrine of decrees will appear from the following statements and references, gathered with slight modifications from Hodge’s Outlines, pp, 205-213:
1. God’s decrees are eternal. Acts 15:18; Eph. 1:4; 3:11; 1 Pet. 1:20; 2 Thess. 2:13; 2 Tim. 1:9; 1 Cor. 2:7.
2. They are immutable. Ps. 33:11; Isa. 46:9.
3. They comprehend all events.
(1.) The Scriptures assert this of the whole system in general embraced in the divine decrees. Dan. 4:34, 35; Acts 17:26; Eph 1:11.
(2.) They affirm the same of fortuitous events. Prov. 16:33; Matt. 10:29, 30.
(3.) Also of the free actions of men. Eph. 2:10, 11; Phil. 2:13.
(4.) Even the wicked actions of men. Acts 2:23; 4:27, 28; 13:29; 1 Pet. 2:8; Jude 4; Rev. 17:17. As to the history of Joseph, compare Gen. 37:28, with Gen. 45:7, 8, and Gen. 50:20. See also Ps. 17:13, 14; Isa. 10:5, 15.
4. The decrees of God are not conditional. Ps. 33:11; Prov. 19:21; Isa. 14:24, 27 ; 46:10; Rom. 9:11.
5. They are sovereign. Isa. 40:13, 14; Dan. 4:35; Matt. 11:25, 26; Rom. 9:11, 15-18; Eph. 1:5, 11.
6. They include the means. Eph. 1:4; 2 Thess. 2:13; 1 Pet. 1:2.
7. They determine the free actions of men. Acts 4:27, 28 ; Eph. 2:10.
8. God himself works in his people that faith and obedience which are called the conditions of salvation. Eph. 2:8 ; Phil. 2:13; 2 Tim. 2:25.
9. The decree renders the event certain. Matt. 16:21; Luke 18:31-33; 24:46; Acts 2:23; 13:29; 1 Cor. 11:19.
10. While God has decreed the free acts of men, the actors have been none the less responsible. Gen. 50:20; Acts 2:23; 3:18; 4:27, 28.
"Ever?" That's the key word. For if he could not sin, then he accomplished nothing in those 40 days in the desert in temptation. However, if God's sovereignty predestined his son to never sin, no matter what temptations (which would have to be described as bogus), it must also be true that He predestined us to sin, and any attempt on our part to 'fly right' is bogus.
If you don't accept this, then you obviously believe His sovereignty can be tapped, or 'hacked,' and we have the ability to do that, but Jesus didn't-- thus, we have greater abilities on earth than Jesus had.
JESUS COULD NOT SIN......ever
http://www.graceonlinelibrary.org/d...the-impeccability-of-christ-by-arthur-w-pink/
We are only given a small glimpse of what went on in those "40 days."
Each is given as an example of how believers should respond to the tempter.
The holiness of being fully God prevented any possibility of sin - though He was tempted because He was also fully human.
That is why the passage In Hebrews 4:15 correctly states:
"For we do not have a high priest who cannot sympathize with our weaknesses, but One who has been tempted in all things as we are, yet without sin."
At this point you stray from the truth. God's sovereighty did not "predestine(d) his son to never sin." God's son did not sin because being FULLY God He could not and being FULLY man He chose not. It had nothing to do with "predestination" and everything to do with Godly character.
I am not certain what your thinking is at this point of the post.
Perhaps, you are attempting to present that because the Lord Jesus Christ was both fully God and fully man, this was somehow limiting Him?
Or, are you stating that humankind have greater authority over that of God?
Believers can communicate with God because we abide in Him. God communicates with believers because He abides in them. There is no "hacking" or "tapping" that is done. One either abides or does not.
Abide and you have all God desires for you to have. Don't abide, and ... well there are consequences just as Christ illustrated.
God is the creator, he created something impossible to be otherwise, yet he didn't predestine it so?
OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Did GOD create Satan as an evil being?
Not certain what your attempting to ask.
Are you thinking along the lines that because God created all things that He could not create that which had the capacity to rebel?
If that is the question then - of course He could.
One small nuance to remember is the word that is used for "that it was good" (opening chapter of Genesis) is one word in the original. It does not mean perfect; rather, it means, good, acceptable, pleasing, fit for the purpose...
No.
"Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death on a cross."
Christ did not sin, not because He did not have the capacity to sin, but He was obedient to the Father.
Again, not sure of your use of the word "hack" but taking it to mean thwart, dismiss, or in some manner not fulfill, then the answer is Yes.
Paul writing to the Corinthians expressed,
"For this reason many among you are weak and sick, and a number sleep."
This was stated as the results of how some were abusing the fellowship of remembrance.
If such is the result of a time of remembrance, what greater pruning lays in wait for those who flippantly or otherwise dismiss, ignore, or rebuff the leading of the Holy Spirit in their lives and life?
If a believer is truly "in the vine" either they will produce or be burned.
God does not "decree" sin.
John says of the believer's state,
"No one who is born of God practices sin, because His seed abides in him; and he cannot sin, because he is born of God." 1 John 3.
James said,
"Let no one say when he is tempted, 'I am being tempted by God'; for God cannot be tempted by evil, and He Himself does not tempt anyone. But each one is tempted when he is carried away and enticed by his own lust. Then when lust has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and when sin is accomplished, it brings forth death.Do not be deceived, my beloved brethren. Every good thing given and every perfect gift is from above, coming down from the Father of lights, with whom there is no variation or shifting shadow. In the exercise of His will He brought us forth by the word of truth, so that we would be a kind of first fruits among His creatures." James 1.
Believers sin because they choose to allow their own lust to entice and carry away.
DO NOT be confused. It is not the "lust" that in itself is the sin. It is the seed planted by lust that "gives birth to sin."
Males are attracted to females. God made them that way.
Females are attracted to males. God made them that way.
However, when that attraction digs in and plants the seeds that are ungodly, and unholy, then all manner of perversion and corruption is birthed.
The difference at this point between a believer and unbeliever is that the believer does not "practice" sin by the grace and power of God in their lives; rather, the believer confesses, forsakes, and establishes measures that thwart and even works to abort the lust planted seed. Paul said,
Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of His might. Put on the full armor of God, so that you will be able to stand firm against the schemes of the devil. http://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-12.htmFor our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the powers, against the world forces of this darkness, against the spiritual forces of wickedness in the heavenly places. http://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-13.htmTherefore, take up the full armor of God, so that you will be able to resist in the evil day, and having done everything, to stand firm. http://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-14.htmStand firm therefore, HAVING GIRDED YOUR LOINS WITH TRUTH, and HAVING PUT ON THE BREASTPLATE OF RIGHTEOUSNESS, http://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-15.htmand having shod YOUR FEET WITH THE PREPARATION OF THE GOSPEL OF PEACE; http://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-16.htmin addition to all, taking up the shield of faith with which you will be able to extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. And take THE HELMET OF SALVATION, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.http://biblehub.com/ephesians/6-18.htmWith all prayer and petition pray at all times in the Spirit, and with this in view, be on the alert with all perseverance and petition for all the saints,
The unbeliever does not have this ability, and although human engineered helps may work for a time, the person is like one attempting to hold many balloons under the surface of the water. Eventually one of them will emerge and usually not were it is expected.
Hope this helps.
God made everything good...but then the earth was cursed after Adam and Eve's sin....
1 John 2:
Do not love the world nor the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him. http://biblehub.com/1_john/2-16.htmFor all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh and the lust of the eyes and the boastful pride of life, is not from the Father, but is from the world. http://biblehub.com/1_john/2-17.htmThe world is passing away, and also its lusts; but the one who does the will of God lives forever.
Lust is "of the world."
Lust is the corruption of the Godly attraction Adam experienced when God brought Eve to him in the garden.
Yes or No: Did God create lust?
If your answer is No, then does it exist independent of His sovereignty? What things do exist that God did not create?
And who cursed it?
I'm not afraid to answer this, God did. And to answer another question you keep asking, Nothing is outside of God's Sovereign control, including things like lust.
Lust is within his sovereign control? Think of that next time the thought comes to you. Still....
Yes or No: Did God create lust?
Why does the idea of a sovereign God who created everything bother you so much?
God created desire, sin makes it lust but neither one are outside of God's control.
You have been given Scripture so what are you really after?
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OldRegular
Well-Known Member
Is it your contention or belief that GOD created evil? If so then be honest and admit that you do.
According to Scripture everything GOD created was Good. I believe that to be true. However, we know that evil exists. If GOD is GOD then HE is Sovereign over all that exists whether the direct result of HIS creative activity or not.
Is lust a "thing?" Are you giving lust a personification?
Lust is a noun, but it is not a person, place, or thing. It is an idea. A thought process.
God created humankind with attributes and characteristics that can serve Him or be turned by sinfulness to the darker purpose. The mind was created by God with all the abilities God enhanced it with; notwithstanding, the mind was part of the fall and the enhancements, therefore, were darkened.
NO, God did not "create lust" rather God created desire for human closeness and touch. Desire, corrupted by the fall, is called "lust."
The Scriptures state that God's thoughts are far above that of the human. God is far smarter than any human.
The Scriptures also state that God knows human thought before the human even thinks the thought (knows the thoughts afar off).
The Scriptures also state that God will place into the mind His purpose and His way causing a person (be it the king or the people of Israel) to do and be a certain way. God does this at very specific instances and under very specific purposes. Being sovereign He has that right and ability.
The dilemma that you seem to purpose resides in the question that if God made all things, and is sovereign over all things, why then does lust run its course without God taking charge over it? Why should He?
Vlad Tepes was the sovereign during a most troubled period of time. He brought (for a time) stability to the land by being very harsh in judgment. The slightest infraction was judged to be worthy of death. Invading armies were turned back by his treatment of prisoners of war.
It is told, that gold coins were left at the fountain edge, to test the people and catch any who might touch them.
The people of that area still hold that ruler in high esteem.
God, at this time, does not express His sovereignty in the way Vlad Tepes did. Will God in the future? Yes. Judgment is coming.
Just because lust runs amok throughout the world, does not impede God's sovereignty, nor invalidate Him as the creator of all THINGS.
As sovereign NOTHING is outside the realm of God's authority, nor exist independent of His sovereignty. Nothing escapes His justice and judgment.
Humans dangle upon a single spider thread above the pits of hell - already condemned.