George Antonios
Well-Known Member
No, you said that, I did not.
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God never designed or purposed to Save ALL men ever born.
- Thread starter Iconoclast
- Start date
No, you said that, I did not.
I do like how you post a Scripture reference to support your posts.
That is admirable.
I would encourage all to follow that pattern when possible and practical.
Or at least give (as seen in the gospels) a short brief of the Scripture mentioned .
Particular redemption, or definite one
How does Matthew 7:21-23 teach that salvation must be received solely as a gift?
Matthew 7:15-23
“Beware of false prophets who come disguised as harmless sheep but are really vicious wolves. You can identify them by their fruit, that is, by the way they act. Can you pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? A good tree produces good fruit, and a bad tree produces bad fruit. A good tree can’t produce bad fruit, and a bad tree can’t produce good fruit. So every tree that does not produce good fruit is chopped down and thrown into the fire. Yes, just as you can identify a tree by its fruit, so you can identify people by their actions.
“Not everyone who calls out to me, ‘Lord! Lord!’ will enter the Kingdom of Heaven. Only those who actually do the will of my Father in heaven will enter. On judgment day many will say to me, ‘Lord! Lord! We prophesied in your name and cast out demons in your name and performed many miracles in your name.’ But I will reply, ‘I never knew you. Get away from me, you who break God’s laws.’
KenH
Well-Known Member
Sounds like you believe that Jesus saved no one in particular, that you believe that Jesus made all men merely potentially savable, and that He could end up saving no one if no one took Him up on His offer. Is that correct?
Now you are saying He bought on behalf of.....all men that believe???
That is not ALL men.
So in what possible way can He be said to be the Saviour of "all" men?
Do you see the issue yet?
37818
Well-Known Member
No. A false accusation against what you do not want to understand.
Christ by His redemption secured the salvation of those whom He saves. Jesus said, in John 10:11, ". . . I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep. . . ."
37818
Well-Known Member
I have explained what you do not want to hear. I cannot make you understand my view.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Are you conditioning salvation on something fallen man has to do before he is regenerated? I hope not. If someone does, then they are saying that Christ may not have saved anyone.
KenH
Well-Known Member
Are you conditioning salvation on fallen man willingly accepting something before he is regenerated? I hope not. If someone does, then they are saying that Christ may not have saved anyone.
37818
Well-Known Member
What does God's word say? Please quote the Scripture.
Acts of the Apostles 10:43, ". . . To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins. . . ."
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KenH
Well-Known Member
Roman 3:9 What then? Are we better than they? Not at all. For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
10 As it is written:
“There is none righteous, no, not one;
11 There is none who understands;
There is none who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside;
They have together become unprofitable;
There is none who does good, no, not one.”
13 “Their throat is an open tomb;
With their tongues they have practiced deceit”;
“The poison of asps is under their lips”;
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood;
16 Destruction and misery are in their ways;
17 And the way of peace they have not known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man does not receive the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; nor can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
Jonah 2:9 "Salvation is of the Lord."
John 6:44 "No one can come to Me unless the Father who sent Me draws him; and I will raise him up at the last day."
John 1:13 who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
Romans 9:15 For He says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whomever I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whomever I will have compassion.” 16 So then it is not of him who wills, nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.
Do you hold then that all are saved by the Cross of Christ, until they actually deny and reject that gift?
KenH
Well-Known Member
And a couple more:
Philippians 1:29 For to you it has been granted on behalf of Christ, not only to believe in Him, but also to suffer for His sake (emphasis mine)
Acts 11:18 When they heard these things they became silent; and they glorified God, saying, “Then God has also granted to the Gentiles repentance to life.” (emphasis mine)
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37818
Well-Known Member
In a way. Mark 10:14, ". . . Jesus . . . said unto them, Allow the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God. Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child, he shall not enter therein. . . ." Note Nicodemus' question, John 3:4, ". . . How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? . . ."
A gardener’s perspective:
The unregenerate can do nothing in the regeneration other than provide compost material.
The unregenerate compost material may be of some helpful use as examples to the other unregenerate and even regenerate concerning the end of all flesh.
Prepared compost is best for planting good seeds that will grow to harvest, seed in which those that sow do the sowing indiscriminately over all the dirt.
The only contribution the compost will make is the decaying process in which the seed gathers to use in fruit bearing. It has no desire but to remain decaying compost.
All Godly repentances and confessions come as a result of and not the catalyst of the work of regeneration done by both the seed (word of God) and planting by the Holy Spirit in the prepared compost.
The field selected, the compost material prepared, even the type and quality of seed is all determined by the owner.
It is also important to acknowledge that the compost has no determination in any aspects of the process, it cannot even prevent the planted seeds from taking root and gathering needs from the compost. Ye shall be light, salt, changed are not determined by the believer, but will take place for the seed changes the compost causing the compost to give up the nutrients and leave behind what is worthless.
The fruit of the field is nothing like the compost, yet is drawn from the compost, just as the believer is a new creation and will have nothing pertaining to the compost other than what is drawn by the seed and used to glorify the owner of the field.
The unregenerate can do nothing in the regeneration other than provide compost material.
The unregenerate compost material may be of some helpful use as examples to the other unregenerate and even regenerate concerning the end of all flesh.
Prepared compost is best for planting good seeds that will grow to harvest, seed in which those that sow do the sowing indiscriminately over all the dirt.
The only contribution the compost will make is the decaying process in which the seed gathers to use in fruit bearing. It has no desire but to remain decaying compost.
9He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began. 10And now He has revealed this grace through the appearing of our Savior, Christ Jesus, who has abolished death and illuminated the way to life and immortality through the gospel, 11to which I was appointed as a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher.
All Godly repentances and confessions come as a result of and not the catalyst of the work of regeneration done by both the seed (word of God) and planting by the Holy Spirit in the prepared compost.
The field selected, the compost material prepared, even the type and quality of seed is all determined by the owner.
It is also important to acknowledge that the compost has no determination in any aspects of the process, it cannot even prevent the planted seeds from taking root and gathering needs from the compost. Ye shall be light, salt, changed are not determined by the believer, but will take place for the seed changes the compost causing the compost to give up the nutrients and leave behind what is worthless.
The fruit of the field is nothing like the compost, yet is drawn from the compost, just as the believer is a new creation and will have nothing pertaining to the compost other than what is drawn by the seed and used to glorify the owner of the field.
Please see post 96
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
Nor does it necessitate including him. We have to look elsewhere in Scripture for interpretation. It would not be the first time Jesus said "you" but was only referring to a subset of the people present.
Reformed1689
Well-Known Member
You mean the theological fiction that not all are chosen? Some are PREPARED for destruction. It is predetermined who will be saved on God's choice not ours? Oh wait, that is exactly what Scripture states.