And thank you for proving my point from the very beginning. You didn't want an answer you just wanted more argument. Webdog if you don't want to believe that is fine. But don't waste people's time looking for an answer that you don't want to hear anyway. But I'm sure you and others will continue to do so regardless.
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God the author and finisher of all salvation?
- Thread starter webdog
- Start date
Lacy Evans
New Member
webdog said:
What works do you have to do to get a reward? How do i get my cookie? Where is the line? Why would God withhold a jewel or two from a blood bought son?
Because (unlike with the Catholics) it is an issue of reward not of sonship and eternal salvation. I know that you see that. I don't understand why you don't acknowledge it. What is the "grading curve" for Christians to be "judged according to their works" for reward? There is none and it is really a bad question to ask. A person who asks usually wants to "walk the thin line" and that is very immature.
Another reason it is a bad question is that we cannot know the weight of mercy. the Bible says that when we are merciful we get mercy. Do we need mercy? Why in the world would God offer and make such abundant provision for something if we really had no need of it.
Would you attend a school where the head master paid your tuition with his son's blood, then presume that you have the right to receive straight "A's" (no matter what quality of work you turned in) based solely on the price of your tuition?
Lacy
Hope of Glory
New Member
webdog said:
This is one of the texts that I use frequently. It's about being righteos and entering the Kingdom of the Heavens. If your righteousness doesn't exceed that of the Scribes and Pharisees (remember, they were righteous, according to the law), you won't enter. We are commanded to be righteous or just! (Remember, it's Christ's righteousness that is the basis for our spiritual salvation; but, we're commanded to be righteous and it relates to the salvation of the soul.)
Galtians 2:16-17 is a good place to start:Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Gal 2:17 But if, while we seek to be justified by Christ, we ourselves also are found sinners, is therefore Christ the minister of sin? God forbid.
In Galatians 6:18, we see that this book is addressed to brethren. It says, “Brethren, the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with your spirit. Amen.” Matthew 12:50 tells us that “brethren” are those who are doing the will of the father are our brethren; those who are being obedient; those who are serious about entering the Kingdom. That’s who the book of Galatians is written to, but they are erring from the truth. Paul is endeavoring to help them see the error of their way. Those to whom this book was written began in the Spirit of the son; they were able to say, “Abba Father”, just as Jesus was able to do that. When we are praying “Abba Father”, we are saying that we know all things are possible; we’re saying to the father, “you can change anything”. It’s not our wills that is important. That’s the spirit of the book of Galatians. It’s the spirit of an adult son. An adult son has responsibility and accountability. That’s what Paul is dealing with here.
This book confuses many people because they try to apply it to spiritual salvation. But, it’s dealing with justification. If we expect to rule and reign, we have to live our lives in such a way that we will hear "well done, thou good and faithful servant". Salvation will not provide that automatically, despite what some say.
But, in Galatians 2:16-17 there are three things being talked about: Faith, law, and salvation:
Faith is a lifestyle. It’s not an event. It can be stopped.
Law is a lifestyle. It’s not an event. It can be stopped. There are two sets of laws:
Moral Law – We can live in the moral law. We can not steal, lie, murder, etc. It’s not an event; it’s a lifestyle. We have to be obedient to the commandments.
Ceremonial Law – has to do with the ordinances that God gave Moses on the mountain and were established when the children of Israel set up the tabernacle and the temple in Jerusalem and the people came to offer animal sacrifices.
When we see the word “law”, there’s a distinction: There’s the moral law and there is the ceremonial law. Both can be stopped. The children of Israel didn’t have to go to the temple. A male was required by the law to go down three times per year, and he could simply stop. We don’t live under the ceremonial law today. We don’t have to go down to the temple three times per year and offer animal sacrifices, but we are under the moral law.
Salvation is an event. It either happens, or it doesn’t. You either believe on the Lord Jesus and that he died on the cross for your sins, or you don’t. If you believe, you’re saved; if you don’t, you’re not.
Justification is by faith. “That we might be justified by faith.” Because justification is by faith, and faith is a lifestyle, justification will depend upon your lifestyle. Justification is not an event; it’s a process. The reason it’s a process is because it’s by faith. Faith is a process. Without faith, it’s impossible to please God. We’re going to have to please God, if we’re going to stand approved. That’s what justification is about; it’s about standing approved.
Hope of Glory
New Member
webdog said:
How do we serve him acceptably? Romans 5:2 tells us, "By whom also we have access by faith into this grace wherein we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God."
We serve him acceptably by grace. It's made available to us. God loves us enough that what we need is there to serve him acceptably. But, this service has nothing to do with getting saved spiritually. He also loved us enough that he gave his son as the perfect sacrifice for us to save us from the ultimate penalty for sin.
webdog said:
Why try to push the limits. The only way to know where the line is is to cross over it. Why not simply live a life of obedience, as the Scriptures command?
webdog said:
Umm... I have the "text book" to study from right in front of me. I passed a lot of my college classes that way.
That's a joke right? I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt that you were trying to be funny. I answered your question. I told you you didn't really want someone to answer your question becuase you weren't going to believe and you proved my point. You are just looking for someone to argue with I guess.
BrianReimer
New Member
webdog said:
Jesus is the author and finisher of my faith. For by grace am I saved for eternity through faith; it isn't what I've done: it is the gift of God.
Hebrews 12:2a AV Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith;
Question: Do you believe God chastens and scourges his own, in this the sixth day? If your answer is "no", please read:
Hebrews 12:5-8 AV And ye have forgotten the exhortation which speaketh unto you as unto children, My son, despise not thou the chastening of the Lord, nor faint when thou art rebuked of him: (6) For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. (7) If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? (8) But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.
If your answer is "yes", then why would we not receive the same in the 7th day as in the 6th, if we deserve it? (The 7th day is the rest that remains to the people of God, Hebrews 4:9, if we labor to enter into that rest, Hebrews 4:11).
Jesus is bringing the Kingdom of Heaven to earth in the 7th day! Please understand the 7th day is time bound and not eternity. Eternity knows no time. We have a promised land set before our eyes, we can see it because we are born again. Will we enter it? We have been warned in Hebrews 3:1-4:11 that we too (holy brethren), if we are disobedient, will perish as that generation did that came out of Egypt because of their disobedience (unbelief). That generation missed the promised land because they did not do as God commanded. The same requirement has been made of us! Whether we are a faithful servant or an unfaithful one will dictate our entrance to the Kingdom on that day, the 7th.
Furthermore, is it not puzzling to you that God would chasten and scourge his own? Why would He? What are we being chastised for? Do you not take the view that your sin (lack of works, disobedience, etc.) after salvation exposes you as a false professor (if not, others do, you know who you are)? Why would God then make the point that He chastens and scourges because we are His sons and not bastards? If I am disobedient, and or sin, and God chastises/scourges me, am I His son or a false professor? If you say I am a false professor then you clearly are not rightly dividing the Word on this issue.
I strive to enter in at the strait gate to His Kingdom, in His rest, the 7th day. Praise God for all eternity my position is secure, that I am born again, without which I cannot see the Kingdom of God. I am written in the Lambs Book of Life because of what my Savior Jesus Christ did for me, the author and finisher of my faith!
Jesus is the Author and Finisher of my faith.
What does that mean to me, an MK believer?
First; it is God who initiated my salvation. John 16:7-11. I was shown my sin, my judgment, and God's righteousness and I was undone. Then Rom. 10:9-13 happened.
God Authored this event in my life.
It is God who will finish my faith. 1 John 3:2. I will see Him one day and will no longer need faith. For we walk by faith and not by sight, today, but then one day, I will see Him. That day my friend will be the end of faith in my life and the fulfillment of His promises to me.
So what does all this have to do with MK/ME? In between Authoring and Finishing my faith God has commanded me to "Be ye perfect even as Your Father in heaven is perfect."
It is the "in between" times which ME/MK addresses. It is not apart from salvation but it is a part of salvation, since we know that God chastens whom He loves. Heb. 12:7 And He rewards the faithful. Matt. 25:21,23
Someone has mentioned our works. And I must ask; Don't you know that any works we do for God must be done through the indwelling Holy Spirit otherwise they are just so many filthy rags in God's sight? Therefore, why would anybody be so foolish as to ask where the line is which we must cross to lose our entrance and inheritance in the Kingdom? The line is obvious to he who takes Scripture seriously. "Be ye perfect even as your Father in heaven is Perfect." Failing perfect righteousness we have an Advocate. 1 John 1:9 is in Scripture for a reason folks.
A final word about the reward mentioned in Matt 25. Think about this and answer for yourself before God. IF Jesus says the reward is rulership and entrance INTO the Kingdom, then chastisement is.....?
What does that mean to me, an MK believer?
First; it is God who initiated my salvation. John 16:7-11. I was shown my sin, my judgment, and God's righteousness and I was undone. Then Rom. 10:9-13 happened.
God Authored this event in my life.
It is God who will finish my faith. 1 John 3:2. I will see Him one day and will no longer need faith. For we walk by faith and not by sight, today, but then one day, I will see Him. That day my friend will be the end of faith in my life and the fulfillment of His promises to me.
So what does all this have to do with MK/ME? In between Authoring and Finishing my faith God has commanded me to "Be ye perfect even as Your Father in heaven is perfect."
It is the "in between" times which ME/MK addresses. It is not apart from salvation but it is a part of salvation, since we know that God chastens whom He loves. Heb. 12:7 And He rewards the faithful. Matt. 25:21,23
Someone has mentioned our works. And I must ask; Don't you know that any works we do for God must be done through the indwelling Holy Spirit otherwise they are just so many filthy rags in God's sight? Therefore, why would anybody be so foolish as to ask where the line is which we must cross to lose our entrance and inheritance in the Kingdom? The line is obvious to he who takes Scripture seriously. "Be ye perfect even as your Father in heaven is Perfect." Failing perfect righteousness we have an Advocate. 1 John 1:9 is in Scripture for a reason folks.
A final word about the reward mentioned in Matt 25. Think about this and answer for yourself before God. IF Jesus says the reward is rulership and entrance INTO the Kingdom, then chastisement is.....?
Lacy Evans
New Member
av1611jim said:
Oh my Jim,
That is so very complicated.
James_Newman
New Member
webdog said:
Luke 16:22-25
22 And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom: the rich man also died, and was buried;
23 And in hell he lifted up his eyes, being in torments, and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom.
24 And he cried and said, Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented in this flame.
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Why was the rich man tormented?
James_Newman
New Member
webdog said:
Can you show me that in the text? I see this:
25 But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivedst thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented.
Does this not remind one of the Lord's words in Luke 9?
Luke 9:24-25
24 For whosoever will save his life shall lose it: but whosoever will lose his life for my sake, the same shall save it.
25 For what is a man advantaged, if he gain the whole world, and lose himself, or be cast away?
J. Jump said:
Luke 16:29-31 Abraham saith unto him, They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them. And he said, Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent. And he said unto him, If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.
Could be he was like one of his brothers...?
James_Newman
New Member
I think I would have to ask the same question as JJump. Believer in what? The problem is, there is nothing in the text about believing. The rich man says that if Abraham sent Lazarus, then his brothers would repent. Abraham seems to think that if the rich man would have paid heed to Moses and the prophets, he wouldn't have been in that situation. I can't help but wonder why Abraham calls the man son.