God the author and finisher of all salvation?

[Blammo]

Natural nations of people who are born, live and die, but are living in an age where the curse is all but lifted.

Isaiah 65:20-23
20 There shall be no more thence an infant of days, nor an old man that hath not filled his days: for the child shall die a hundred years old; but the sinner being a hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 And they shall build houses, and inhabit them; and they shall plant vineyards, and eat the fruit of them.
22 They shall not build, and another inhabit; they shall not plant, and another eat: for as the days of a tree are the days of my people, and mine elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain, nor bring forth for trouble; for they are the seed of the blessed of the LORD, and their offspring with them.

So they will live long and fruitful lives, but they are still natural beings. This is in contrast to the final eternal age when we see that there is no more sorrow, and no more death.

While these "natural born nations" are being reigned over by the "good" christians, there are millions of "bad" christians in hell?

 

[James_Newman]

While these "natural born nations" are being reigned over by the "good" christians, there are millions of "bad" christians in hell?

Maybe billions? Hell and destruction are never full. But on the last day, God raises them up at the great white throne.

Revelation 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If they are written in the book of life, they will not go into the lake of fire, but instead will live with Him, never to die again.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

 

[Blammo]

Maybe billions? Hell and destruction are never full. But on the last day, God raises them up at the great white throne.

Revelation 20:11-15
11 And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.
12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.
13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.
14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death.
15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

If they are written in the book of life, they will not go into the lake of fire, but instead will live with Him, never to die again.

Revelation 21:4 And God shall wipe away all tears from their eyes; and there shall be no more death, neither sorrow, nor crying, neither shall there be any more pain: for the former things are passed away.

Verse 12 of chapter 20 says they are judged "according to their works"..., again?

 

[James_Newman]

Verse 12 of chapter 20 says they are judged "according to their works"..., again?

Well that includes all the unsaved who were not judged at the judgment seat of Christ. But I imagine they will get another chance to see what they did that caused God to kill His own Son.

 

[Blammo]

Well that includes all the unsaved who were not judged at the judgment seat of Christ. But I imagine they will get another chance to see what they did that caused God to kill His own Son.

Does it not imply that all of the dead are to be judged according to their works? Why would those who are "spiritually saved", and have already suffered in hell for 1000 years because of their works, be judged again?

 

[James_Newman]

Does it not imply that all of the dead are to be judged according to their works? Why would those who are "spiritually saved", and have already suffered in hell for 1000 years because of their works, be judged again?

Well, it's two different judgments for two different reasons, and of course there will be two different outcomes. The judgment may consist of merely looking in the book of life for those who were already judged according to their works at the judgment seat of Christ, I don't know. I don't see any reason why they couldn't be judged twice though.

 

[Blammo]

Well, it's two different judgments for two different reasons, and of course there will be two different outcomes. The judgment may consist of merely looking in the book of life for those who were already judged according to their works at the judgment seat of Christ, I don't know. I don't see any reason why they couldn't be judged twice though.

I don't see any reason why those on their way to the Lake of Fire couldn't be judged twice, (they deserve it for rejecting Christ), but I just can't see why those who are about to enter into life eternal could be judged according to their works again. Afterall, they just got done paying for it in hell for 1000 years.

 

[James_Newman]

I don't see any reason why those on their way to the Lake of Fire couldn't be judged twice, (they deserve it for rejecting Christ), but I just can't see why those who are about to enter into life eternal could be judged according to their works again. Afterall, they just got done paying for it in hell for 1000 years.

When the angels read their name out of the book of life and God wipes the tears from their eyes, I don't think they are going to mind. Keep in mind, what they experienced in hell is nowhere near the full payment of their sin that Jesus carried for them on the cross. Compared to a billion times a billion times infinity, a thousand years is a blink of the eye. But I imagine when your in it, it seems like eternity.

 

[Brother Bob]

When the angels read their name out of the book of life and God wipes the tears from their eyes, I don't think they are going to mind. Keep in mind, what they experienced in hell is nowhere near the full payment of their sin that Jesus carried for them on the cross. Compared to a billion times a billion times infinity, a thousand years is a blink of the eye. But I imagine when your in it, it seems like eternity.

Jeepers..................

 

[Blammo]

When the angels read their name out of the book of life and God wipes the tears from their eyes, I don't think they are going to mind. Keep in mind, what they experienced in hell is nowhere near the full payment of their sin that Jesus carried for them on the cross. Compared to a billion times a billion times infinity, a thousand years is a blink of the eye. But I imagine when your in it, it seems like eternity.

Yes, I'm sure it would feel like eternity. It is difficult for me to believe that God, who has saved those who put their faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, would then punish them in flames for 1000 years because they didn't work hard enough.

 

[James_Newman]

Yes, I'm sure it would feel like eternity. It is difficult for me to believe that God, who has saved those who put their faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, would then punish them in flames for 1000 years because they didn't work hard enough.

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

I think we all have a tendency to underestimate God sometimes. Folks like Bob underestimate the goodness (God won't save someone who doesn't return the favor) while we tend to underestimate the severity. Cut off, in the bible, is never a good thing.

 

[AresMan]

Yes, I'm sure it would feel like eternity. It is difficult for me to believe that God, who has saved those who put their faith in the finished work of Jesus Christ, would then punish them in flames for 1000 years because they didn't work hard enough.

Wow. Protestant Purgatory.

 

[npetreley]

Really? How so?

There are so many, I'm not sure where to start. For one, he concludes that the young ruler couldn't possibly have been lying (or even self-deceived, but thought he was telling the truth) otherwise Jesus would have said so. Oh really? And we know that Jesus would have said what the writer thinks He would say, how? Jesus handled many encounters in ways one would not normally expect.

Therefore (the writer concludes) the young ruler must have been saved. Now there's a leap of logic. Because the young ruler believes he followed the law, he must have been saved.

Then he goes on to base a lot of following conclusions on those unfounded assumptions.

Not to mention the context implies otherwise.

IMO, the whole work is a masterpiece of disaster.

 

[Brother Bob]

Romans 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

I think we all have a tendency to underestimate God sometimes. Folks like Bob underestimate the goodness (God won't save someone who doesn't return the favor) while we tend to underestimate the severity. Cut off, in the bible, is never a good thing.

You quote a scripture that rejects your argument and supports mine. There is none good no not one and God saves them. Don't accuse me of something I don't do please.

If you are saying I don't believe God saves a person while he is committing adultery or killing someone then you are right about me for I believe someone has to repent and believe to be saved.

 

[webdog]

It used to be myself and Bartholomew. Now we are a crowd! Praise God!

Webdog, even God can't make applesauce from oranges. It defy's logic to expect him to hold the same principals, procedures, and standards for reward as he does for a gift. gift is gift and reward is reward. We are promised the free gift eternal salvation if we believe on the finished work of Jesus. We are promised reward if (and only if) we do something worthy of reward.

Lacy

As Allan pointed out, yes He can make applesause from orngnes, grapes, mud, etc. He's God.

Come on KE advocates. I have yet to see an answer. If God is the author and finisher of salvation...who's the author and finisher of Kingdom salvation?

 

[webdog]

How does this verse play into the KE view?

Mat 5:20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness surpasses that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

 

[J. Jump]

And you haven't answered my question yet either. Why do you want an answer when you are convinced we are wrong anyway? What is the point? Is an answer to this specific question what is going to turn the table for you or something?

 

[webdog]

And you haven't answered my question yet either. Why do you want an answer when you are convinced we are wrong anyway? What is the point? Is an answer to this specific question what is going to turn the table for you or something?

Why should I answer your question, when I started this thread with a specific question I wanted answered? You YET still do not answer, and try to be evasive. If you do not have an answer, just admit it instead of playing games.

The reason I want to know? Because if ME is as truthful as you suggest it is, this should be a very easy question to answer.

 

[J. Jump]

It is a very easy question to answer. There is nothing evasive, just curious as to why you want to know. It's not going to matter what we say, becuase you aren't going to believe it anyway.

The answer can be found in many different places, but we can just start here. Salvation is from the Lord. There are you a Word of the Kingdom believer now webdog?

 

[webdog]

It is a very easy question to answer. There is nothing evasive, just curious as to why you want to know. It's not going to matter what we say, becuase you aren't going to believe it anyway.

The answer can be found in many different places, but we can just start here. Salvation is from the Lord. There are you a Word of the Kingdom believer now webdog?

What's of the Lord? The works we have to do to enter? If we don't then, are we held accountable for the works God failed to give us to do?

This is the same problem the catholics have with eternal salvation. What's the "grading curve"...10%, 51%...90%? Why hasn't God set a specific standard to follow?

Would you send your child to a school that the teacher met on only one occasion to tell them there would be a final exam in 12 weeks and to be ready...but in the mean time they would not meet again, nor would she tell them what the exam is about?