God Wants to Deliver Us from the Evil Instrumental Music of This Present Evil World

[Charlie24]

So would your pastor condemn as worldly such things as purple hair, nose rings, piercings, tattoos, ripped up blue jeans, chatbot companions, movie theatres, film streaming like Netflix, card games, professional sports, video games, social media?

Our pastor preaches the Word and if he steps on your toes, oh well, it wasn't intentional.

The problem is very few can find their toes stepped on.

 

[Charlie24]

Our pastor preaches the Word and if he steps on your toes, oh well, it wasn't intentional.

The problem is very few can find their toes stepped on.

He doesn't go as far as the apostle Paul in calling out sin and names before the whole Church.

I would say the majority of Churches today will not even point out the sin that could take place in the list you've posted.

 

[Salty]

The Bible shows that God's people used a number of different instruments. Other peoples had other instruments besides the ones that God's people used. I do not know of any legitimate biblical basis that requires us to hold that God accepted all the instruments of all the people of the world, regardless of whether His people used them or not.

Again, the question boils down to what basis those who claim that there are no evil musical instruments support their claims. Does God regard all musical instruments as good or not?

So you do not have a good answer for your statement?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

So you do not have a good answer for your statement?

I have a perfectly good basis for my statement. Claiming that "this present evil world" does not have anything to do with any of the instrumental music or musical instruments of the world cannot be legitimately asserted without providing any valid biblical support.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Romans 14:14
I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.

Hmm. So, you believe that pornography is not "unclean of itself" because the Bible never directly speaks about pornography?

 

[Salty]

Since you dont have an answer - I am out of this so-called discussion!
See you in about 50 posts!

 

[Ben1445]

Hmm. So, you believe that pornography is not "unclean of itself" because the Bible never directly speaks about pornography?

It certainly is talked about. The first thing God did to begin the restoration of mankind is to put clothes on them.

 

[Ben1445]

Since you dont have an answer - I am out of this so-called discussion!
See you in about 50 posts!

It took me a half a second to realize what you were saying.

 

[JonC]

No one tells any more jokes that our pastor.

But he is very serious and so is the congregation on separation from the world in all forms.

Not isolation, but a definite separation.

The Church must have a noticeable difference from the world.

Sometimes the problem is the noticeable difference churches have from the world.

I believe the noticeable difference should be a Christ-likeness.

Think of the music style used in the Bible. It was like secular music. Same instruments. Same style (different purpose, different content).

Think of how they dressed. They dressed modestly (not like the wealthy but in common dress....common to the everyday man).

So....the biblical church dressed like the common man. Their hair styles was common to their culture. They used the music of their culture in worship.

How were they distinguished from the world?

By their fruits.

This is also how they reached others with the gospel. Not by false piety but by a true community of believers in but not of the world.

 

[JonC]

Hmm. So, you believe that pornography is not "unclean of itself" because the Bible never directly speaks about pornography?

The Bible does speak of pornography (of viewing nakedness, of lustfulness, of sexual immorality).

But you may have a point regarding nudity in art (sculptures, paintings) that are not purposed as sexual content.

Your comparison is like saying murdering with a gun is not prohibited by the Bible because guns are not mentioned.

 

[Charlie24]

Sometimes the problem is the noticeable difference churches have from the world.

I believe the noticeable difference should be a Christ-likeness.

Think of the music style used in the Bible. It was like secular music. Same instruments. Same style (different purpose, different content).

Think of how they dressed. They dressed modestly (not like the wealthy but in common dress....common to the everyday man).

So....the biblical church dressed like the common man. Their hair styles was common to their culture. They used the music of their culture in worship.

How were they distinguished from the world?

By their fruits.

This is also how they reached others with the gospel. Not by false piety but by a true community of believers in but not of the world.

I don't know if the early Christians had anything that could be compared to the rock beat we have today that is filling the Churches.

What I do know is that I don't like it, and I don't believe for one moment the rock beat is satisfying and acceptable to the Holy Spirit.

It's just one of many areas where I see a need for separation.

 

[Ascetic X]

Hmm. So, you believe that pornography is not "unclean of itself" because the Bible never directly speaks about pornography?

Looking lustfully at a woman in the flesh, in a photo, or in a film are all the same.

Job 31:1 NIV

I made a covenant with my eyes not to look lustfully at a young woman.

 

[Ben1445]

Hmm. So, you believe that pornography is not "unclean of itself" because the Bible never directly speaks about pornography?

And, the verse provided is directly talking about meats and indirectly music.
It should be clear enough that I believe in biblical principles and have not limited myself to what is directly stated.

 

[JonC]

I don't know if the early Christians had anything that could be compared to the rock beat we have today that is filling the Churches.

What I do know is that I don't like it, and I don't believe for one moment the rock beat is satisfying and acceptable to the Holy Spirit.

It's just one of many areas where I see a need for separation.

I do not know, simply because I do not kniw what you mean by a "rock beat". The percussion would be more "rock" than traditional hymns, but I would not compare it to rock. But then again, I have never experienced rock in a contemporary worship music service.

I doubt very seriously that you would like biblical worship music either (their stringed instruments, drums, halil (that flute linking thingy), and the chant type singing. I would not like it, as it is too foreign to me.

But that does not mean God does not like it. Obviously He does as He told them to praise Him with those instruments and that type of chanting.


Now, if you are saying that Contemporary Worship Music is unacceptable to the Holy Spirit then there are serious warnings you may need to consider. But again, I do not know that we are talking about the same thing.

Here is an example of what I am talking about (as there is a difference between Christian Rock and Contemporary Worship Music):

I am interested why you believe God rejects that worship when sung in praise by a congregation yet would accept Western hymns foreign to the music of the Bible.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

And, the verse provided is directly talking about meats and indirectly music.
It should be clear enough that I believe in biblical principles and have not limited myself to what is directly stated.

Romans 14:14 is indirectly talking about music? Can you explain just exactly how that is true?

 

[Charlie24]

I do not know, simply because I do not kniw what you mean by a "rock beat". The percussion would be more "rock" than traditional hymns, but I would not compare it to rock. But then again, I have never experienced rock in a contemporary worship music service.

I doubt very seriously that you would like biblical worship music either (their stringed instruments, drums, halil (that flute linking thingy), and the chant type singing. I would not like it, as it is too foreign to me.

But that does not mean God does not like it. Obviously He does as He told them to praise Him with those instruments and that type of chanting.


Now, if you are saying that Contemporary Worship Music is unacceptable to the Holy Spirit then there are serious warnings you may need to consider. But again, I do not know that we are talking about the same thing.

Here is an example of what I am talking about (as there is a difference between Christian Rock and Contemporary Worship Music):

I am interested why you believe God rejects that worship when sung in praise by a congregation yet would accept Western hymns foreign to the music of the Bible.

Yep, the rock beat! I'm from the old school and that video is not acceptable for me, Jon.

I can't worship the Lord in Spirit to that!

 

[JonC]

Yep, the rock beat! I'm from the old school and that video is not acceptable for me, Jon.

I can't worship the Lord in Spirit to that!

But that is less than what you said.

I get that you could not worship with that music. You and I probably would have difficulty with the music they used in the Bible (you would hate the drums, I would not be able to do the chants). I find it difficult to stay through a service of traditional hymns.

What you said, however, is that the music - like "How Great is Our God" - is unacceptable to the Holy Spirit.

I was asking why you believe God rejected the praise of His people when they sing songs like that.

The lyrics are more biblical than most hymns. The music is not biblical, but no less biblical than traditional hymns. It certainly would not be confused with secular music.

All you gave me is that you, personally, do not like it.

Preferances aside - Why would God reject His people's praise abd worship if they sung "How Great is Our God"?

 

[Charlie24]

But that is less than what you said.

I get that you could not worship with that music. You and I probably would have difficulty with the music they used in the Bible (you would hate the drums, I would not be able to do the chants). I find it difficult to stay through a service of traditional hymns.

What you said, however, is that the music - like "How Great is Our God" - is unacceptable to the Holy Spirit.

I was asking why you believe God rejected the praise of His people when they sing songs like that.

The lyrics are more biblical than most hymns. The music is not biblical, but no less biblical than traditional hymns. It certainly would not be confused with secular music.

All you gave me is that you, personally, do not like it.

Preferances aside - Why would God reject His people's praise abd worship if they sung "How Great is Our God"?

I don't like the rock beat. We are a product of changing culture and some of us will not cross those boundaries.

All I can say to answer your question is that the rock beat and sound is a turn off to me as far as worship of our Lord.

Rock music, that general sound came out about time of my birth. I grew up with it and seen the progression.

I was raised in a Church that was traditional music and they made sure of the separation from the rock sound.

I'm still in a IFB Church that ensures that beat will not enter into our worship.

 

[JonC]

I don't like the rock beat. We are a product of changing culture and some of us will not cross those boundaries.

All I can say to answer your question is that the rock beat and sound is a turn off to me as far as worship of our Lord.

Rock music, that general sound came out about time of my birth. I grew up with it and seen the progression.

I was raised in a Church that was traditional music and they made sure of the separation from the rock sound.

I'm still in a IFB Church that ensures that beat will not enter into our worship.

I do not mind that at all.

I do not like hymns accompanied by paino and organ. So that certainly would not be my pick.

But I would never consider speaking against those who use their gifts to worship God by plaing the paino or organ, or those who use that music in worship.

That is the difference here.

While I believe God accepts the praise of Christians singing hymns, even though that is not my preference, you outright stated that the Holy Spirit rejects the praise of Christians who use CWM (post# 51) because although it is distinct from secular music you dislike it.

You can't claim "separation" because CWM does not sound like secular music. Also, hymns and traditional hymn music os not unique to Christianity.


Again - I have no problem with you preferring hymns. I do not, but we probably prefer different flavors of ice cream (my favorite is vanilla).

But I do have a problem with any Christian condemning the worship of other Christians based on musical instruments or style (whether biblical music, hymns, CWM, or even Christian camp fire songs).

That is what you did by proclaiming God rejects the worship of His people if it is not your preference.

I really hope that was overstatement on your part (I pray it was).


I hope you understand why I find it offensive (akin to taking God's name in vain).

If it helps - consider that the closest approximation we have to biblical instruments are the guitar and drum. Imagine I tell you that God rejects your worship because you use a paino which is a worldly percussion instrument designed for secular music. Or that your music sounds too ritualistic and repetitive to me so the Holy Spirit will not accept your worship.

That would be wrong of me (it would be taking God's name in vain). And I never would say - or think - that even if it would be difficult for me to worship in your style.

But that is what you did to me.

 

[Charlie24]

I do not mind that at all.

I do not like hymns accompanied by paino and organ. So that certainly would not be my pick.

But I would never consider speaking against those who use their gifts to worship God by plaing the paino or organ, or those who use that music in worship.

That is the difference here.

While I believe God accepts the praise of Christians singing hymns, even though that is not my preference, you outright stated that the Holy Spirit rejects the praise of Christians who use CWM (post# 51) because although it is distinct from secular music you dislike it.

You can't claim "separation" because CWM does not sound like secular music. Also, hymns and traditional hymn music os not unique to Christianity.


Again - I have no problem with you preferring hymns. I do not, but we probably prefer different flavors of ice cream (my favorite is vanilla).

But I do have a problem with any Christian condemning the worship of other Christians based on musical instruments or style (whether biblical music, hymns, CWM, or even Christian camp fire songs).

That is what you did by proclaiming God rejects the worship of His people if it is not yoyr preference.

I really hope that was overstatement on your part (I pray it was).

Yea, I guess we have a problem. I see the contemporary gospel music as a money market, not worship of God in Spirit and Truth.

You see it as you will, and worship as you will, but I'll have no part in it.