God will call His Elect to Salvation

[Earth Wind and Fire]

Do you have any good books by Pink? This book looks really good.

Eternal Punishment

I have the book Spiritual Depression by Jones but have not read it. Is it any good?

Yea.....now read it. You will get some understanding out of it because all his books are taken from his sermons. Guy was both very godly & a genius. You may want to read some of ML-J history prior to reading the book. The book I prise however is Studies of the Sermon on the Mount. Washer is good, but he doesnt have near the intellectual capacity as ML-J in my opinion.

 

[prophet]

The Bridegroom makes us an offer. We elect to accept it. We become the Bride.

Anyone here ever take an elective course in University? It wasn't required, or forced on you, you chose it.

It is this simple, really.

 

[psalms109:31]

Judah was never given to Jesus because he did not listen and learn from Jesus. He was there for his own agenda for what he could get out of it. It was easy for God to use him by just given him over to his own desire.

A person who listens and learn are drawn by His loving kindness. We may hate Him, despise Him, even curse His name.


To those who listen and learn no matter what state you are in at the end you will say Jesus save me or I will perish.

I do not believe there is a choice when we listen and learn He will change who were are and change our desire to Him no matter how we start off. He will be our desire.

I do not believe we come to Him kicking and screaming but come to Him because of being drawn by His loving kindness.

You listen and learn from Jesus I promise that He will give you a new will and you will say not my will but your will be done.

Some are not drawn by His loving kindness but who they think God is and have their own agenda as Judas

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

But the Calvinist has the blinders removed and he can see the verse for what it actually says: "By grace are you saved through FAITH..."

The Calvinist is the one with blinders, as he fails to see that man has a limited roll in obtaining salvation. The word that is typically translated as "believe/believed" in the New Testament is pisteuo, as I am sure you are well aware. What does the word mean? Let's look at Thayer's, shall we?

• to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
• • of the thing believed
• to credit, have confidence
• • in a moral or religious reference
• used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
• to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
• mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
• to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
• to be intrusted with a thing

So tell me, what part of those definitions exclude man from making a determination? True, it is a determination that is empowered solely by the Holy Spirit, who has, to the point of belief, drawn and called the sinner to repentance, and now opens the heart, mind, soul and spirit to the truth so that there may be total intellectual, emotional and spiritual agreement within the sinner that he/she may be saved. But nonetheless, the determination is made, not by God, but by the nee: sinner, now believer. True, or not?

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

The Bridegroom makes us an offer. We elect to accept it. We become the Bride.

Anyone here ever take an elective course in University? It wasn't required, or forced on you, you chose it.

It is this simple, really.

Why would your creator....1st the Father choose you from before the beginning of time (putting you in the lambs book of life), then the Son died for those the Father chose & gave to Him....last breath, "It is Finished," then the spirit comes and manages to apply the attoning work to the chosen/elect.....why, so man could just like that negate the divine actions of the Goddhead (Trinity) in favor of human choice??? Simply absurd.

So what your really saying is that although God's grace is attractive & persuasive, it is not powerful enough to triumph over those who stubbornly resist His love. And whether or not a Christian will persevere to the very end is open to question because perseverance ultimately depends on the Christian rather than on Christ.

 

[prophet]

Why would your creator....1st the Father choose you from before the beginning of time (putting you in the lambs book of life), then the Son died for those the Father chose & gave to Him....last breath, "It is Finished," then the spirit comes and manages to apply the attoning work to the chosen/elect.....why, so man could just like that negate the divine actions of the Goddhead (Trinity) in favor of human choice??? Simply absurd.

So what your really saying is that although God's grace is attractive & persuasive, it is not powerful enough to triumph over those who stubbornly resist His love. And whether or not a Christian will persevere to the very end is open to question because perseverance ultimately depends on the Christian rather than on Christ.

Why do you purport to put words in my mouth?

Once we accept the groom's proposal, we are sealed, and Christ does the keeping, glory to God.

Just because you dont understand the word, Eternity, that God sees all of time at once, and is simultaneously the Alpha and Omega, doesnt change the fact that God knows that I would be saved, before the World began, and predestinated me for all that His Will is for me.

 

[convicted1]

Why would your creator....1st the Father choose you from before the beginning of time (putting you in the lambs book of life), then the Son died for those the Father chose & gave to Him....last breath, "It is Finished," then the spirit comes and manages to apply the attoning work to the chosen/elect.....why, so man could just like that negate the divine actions of the Goddhead (Trinity) in favor of human choice??? Simply absurd.

So what your really saying is that although God's grace is attractive & persuasive, it is not powerful enough to triumph over those who stubbornly resist His love. And whether or not a Christian will persevere to the very end is open to question because perseverance ultimately depends on the Christian rather than on Christ.

:godisgood::jesus::godisgood::jesus:

I have the song "There's victory in Jesus" ringing in my head as I type this. We are victorious because He fought and won the battle for us. He fought and won, and we reap the "spoils" of His victory. It's all His works that saved us, and not ours.

 

[Earth Wind and Fire]

:godisgood::jesus::godisgood::jesus:

I have the song "There's victory in Jesus" ringing in my head as I type this. We are victorious because He fought and won the battle for us. He fought and won, and we reap the "spoils" of His victory. It's all His works that saved us, and not ours.

Amen Brother Willis

 

[Rippon]

If you hold to any Reformed idea of election, you are seriously misguided. Doesn't matter if your take is that God chose some, haphazardly, to believe, or that He chooses those who He knows will choose Him.

The Reformed understanding of election has nothing in common with either concepts.

By the way, it is seriously misguided sin to say that anything God does is haphazard. God does everything in perfect order. Don't ascribe such nonsense to the Lord --even if you don't agree with Calvinism there is no reason to state things that are utterly regugnant.

 

[convicted1]

The Bridegroom makes us an offer. We elect to accept it. We become the Bride.

Anyone here ever take an elective course in University? It wasn't required, or forced on you, you chose it.

It is this simple, really.

God doesn't make us, the bride, an offer. He chose us. In this, He sent His Son to die for those He chose from the foundation of the world. The story of Hosea and Gomer is a good picture of this. Then there's Ezekiel 34, John 6, 10, 17, Romans 8, Ephesians 1, Philippians 2:13, Romans 9:16, John 1:12,13, just for starters.

But closely read Hosea and Gomer's story.

 

[psalms109:31]

Why do you purport to put words in my mouth?

Once we accept the groom's proposal, we are sealed, and Christ does the keeping, glory to God.

Just because you dont understand the word, Eternity, that God sees all of time at once, and is simultaneously the Alpha and Omega, doesnt change the fact that God knows that I would be saved, before the World began, and predestinated me for all that His Will is for me.

We are chosen in Christ, Christ is the one chosen before the foundation of the world in Him we are to.

There is to many Scripture teaching us to remain in Him because He is our salvatuon.

There is many who let trials and tribulation choke them out, they are not saved.

People have family members and people they love choked out and they rather believe a lie for them than to believe the truth. They are the one who belief systems comes out of their emotions. Jesus will not lose one He has Been given. They will not leave if they do they really didn't belong.

19 They went out from us, but they did not really belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us; but their going showed that none of them belonged to us.

20 But you have an anointing from the Holy One, and all of you know the truth.21 I do not write to you because you do not know the truth, but because you do know it and because no lie comes from the truth. 22 Who is the liar? It is whoever denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a person is the antichrist—denying the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father; whoever acknowledges the Son has the Father also.

 

[Luke2427]

Really?!? You guys think that fallacious rhetoric is even noteworthy and/or worth your praise??? Seriously???

....Cool!!



5 point Calvinists think that the words "faith" and "determinism" are interchangeable. Of course they have no Bible for it, but they can't see that. All they can see is what they were raised to think.

So when they see someone putting faith in Christ they actually see someone being "DETERMINED" by Christ.

And everywhere the Bible says "faith" they subconsciously (ironically according to their will) think "Determinism." It's not there... but its how their minds work.

And that is why they miss the biggest part of biblical soteriology.

They believe "By grace are you saved through DETERMINISM..." That is what they see when they Read Ephesians 2.


But the Arminian has the blinders removed and he can see the verse for what it actually says: "By grace are you saved through FAITH..."

I know you think that's cute and you're pretty proud of it as is evinced by all your silly emoticons but it is not applicable at all.

Yes, God has determined everything that ever comes to pass including faith. That does not mean that faith IS determination- just that it is the RESULT of determination.

It's pretty silly for you to say that any of us say otherwise.

 

[Luke2427]

The Calvinist is the one with blinders, as he fails to see that man has a limited roll in obtaining salvation. The word that is typically translated as "believe/believed" in the New Testament is pisteuo, as I am sure you are well aware. What does the word mean? Let's look at Thayer's, shall we?

• to think to be true, to be persuaded of, to credit, place confidence in
• • of the thing believed
• to credit, have confidence
• • in a moral or religious reference
• used in the NT of the conviction and trust to which a man is impelled by a certain inner and higher prerogative and law of soul
• to trust in Jesus or God as able to aid either in obtaining or in doing something: saving faith
• mere acknowledgment of some fact or event: intellectual faith
• to entrust a thing to one, i.e. his fidelity
• to be intrusted with a thing

So tell me, what part of those definitions exclude man from making a determination? True, it is a determination that is empowered solely by the Holy Spirit, who has, to the point of belief, drawn and called the sinner to repentance, and now opens the heart, mind, soul and spirit to the truth so that there may be total intellectual, emotional and spiritual agreement within the sinner that he/she may be saved. But nonetheless, the determination is made, not by God, but by the nee: sinner, now believer. True, or not?

Not true.

Notice in your definitions the passive nature of the one believing (to be persuaded of).

Being persuaded is something that happens TO you. You don't believe in things because you WILL yourself to believe in them. You believe in them because you ARE persuaded that they are so.

For example, when did you CHOOSE to believe in gravity?

Never. Gravity persuaded you that it exists. You cannot, in fact, WILL yourself to NOT believe in it.

Belief is the result of something happening to you- not something you will to come to pass.

 

[saturneptune]

The Reformed understanding of election has nothing in common with either concepts.

By the way, it is seriously misguided sin to say that anything God does is haphazard. God does everything in perfect order. Don't ascribe such nonsense to the Lord --even if you don't agree with Calvinism there is no reason to state things that are utterly regugnant.

Post reported...................

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

But closely read Hosea and Gomer's story.

I suggest you do the same. Gomer fled, then willing came back, then fled again. Hosea finally bought her out of her prostitution. Nonetheless, she maintained choice -- though, in coming out of that lifestyle, I'm sure she felt like it was no choice -- in whether to go home with him or not. The overall message was for Israel, painting the nation as a prostitute who committed adultery against God, just as did Gomer with her husband. God used an individual to paint a picture of corporate election of the nation. He painted a picture of Himself pursuing Israel just as Hosea pursued Gomer.

 

[Benjamin]

4/5ths Arminians think that the words "faith" and "choice" are interchangeable. Of course they have no Bible for it, but they can't see that. All they can see is what they were raised to think.

So when they see someone putting faith in Christ they actually see someone "CHOOSING" Christ.

And everywhere the Bible says "faith" they subconsciously (ironically against their will) think "choice." It's not there... but its how their minds work.

And that is why they miss the biggest part of biblical soteriology.

They believe "By grace are you saved through CHOICE..." That is what they see when they Read Ephesians 2.


But the Calvinist has the blinders removed and he can see the verse for what it actually says: "By grace are you saved through FAITH..."

Then comes your cheer squad

:

(((((HALLELUJAH)))))

Thats a splendid summary!

To which I reply:

Really?!? You guys think that fallacious rhetoric is even noteworthy and/or worth your praise??? Seriously???

....Cool!!



5 point Calvinists think that the words "faith" and "determinism" are interchangeable. Of course they have no Bible for it, but they can't see that. All they can see is what they were raised to think.

So when they see someone putting faith in Christ they actually see someone being "DETERMINED" by Christ.

And everywhere the Bible says "faith" they subconsciously (ironically according to their will) think "Determinism." It's not there... but its how their minds work.

And that is why they miss the biggest part of biblical soteriology.

They believe "By grace are you saved through DETERMINISM..." That is what they see when they Read Ephesians 2.


But the Arminian has the blinders removed and he can see the verse for what it actually says: "By grace are you saved through FAITH..."

I know you think that's cute and you're pretty proud of it as is evinced by all your silly emoticons but it is not applicable at all.

Yes, God has determined everything that ever comes to pass including faith. That does not mean that faith IS determination- just that it is the RESULT of determination.

It's pretty silly for you to say that any of us say otherwise.

Luke, Luke, it gets tiring having to spell these things out for you, sigh. But, what’s pretty silly is that you missed my attack was on your fallacious reasoning, along with that others of your ilk would consider that reasoning of yours as valid/praiseworthy, and that I demonstrated how ridiculous your reasoning was by simply substituting “CHOICE” with “DETERMINISM” to validate my argument against your silly rhetorical fallacious argument by example.

But you either totally missed this point or purposely evaded it. You didn’t follow or respond to my argument about your reasoning at all, but came back with a response of going right for person who attacked your reasoning, starting with, I know “YOU” (More fallacy: Ad Hominem) while focusing on the emoticons thinking you might start a new argument by insulting me personally.

Then you offer some more nonsensical and illogical statement about determinism and conclude with saying it “my reasoning” is silly thereby further demonstrating that you have once again missed or are evading the point that this was YOUR REASONING with a simple word switch!! YOU SEE it is "applicable" in that my reasoning should be equally as meaningful as yours, and it is, WHICH MEANS it would have to be considered just as valid. BTW, in case you missed it, its not valid. WINK!

Luke, please don’t embarrass yourself further with demonstrations of criticizing your own reasoning, and do take a class on Basic Logic and Critical Thinking Skills so you are at least better at following the arguments whereby you further demonstrate your fallacious thinking when they are pointed to you, rather than just merely adding to the evidence against your poor critical thinking skills.

 

[Luke2427]

Then comes your cheer squad

:





To which I reply:




Luke, Luke, it gets tiring having to spell these things out for you, sigh. But, what’s pretty silly is that you missed my attack was on your fallacious reasoning, along with that others of your ilk would consider that reasoning of yours as valid/praiseworthy, and that I demonstrated how ridiculous your reasoning was by simply substituting “CHOICE” with “DETERMINISM” to validate my argument against your silly rhetorical fallacious argument by example.

But you either totally missed this point or purposely evaded it. You didn’t follow or respond to my argument about your reasoning at all, but came back with a response of going right for person who attacked your reasoning, starting with, I know “YOU” (More fallacy: Ad Hominem) while focusing on the emoticons thinking you might start a new argument by insulting me personally.

Then you offer some more nonsensical and illogical statement about determinism and conclude with saying it “my reasoning” is silly thereby further demonstrating that you have once again missed or are evading the point that this was YOUR REASONING with a simple word switch!! YOU SEE it is "applicable" in that my reasoning should be equally as meaningful as yours, and it is, WHICH MEANS it would have to be considered just as valid. BTW, in case you missed it, its not valid. WINK!

Luke, please don’t embarrass yourself further with demonstrations of criticizing your own reasoning, and do take a class on Basic Logic and Critical Thinking Skills so you are at least better at following the arguments whereby you further demonstrate your fallacious thinking when they are pointed to you, rather than just merely adding to the evidence against your poor critical thinking skills.

Ben, I know you are not far along enough yet to notice it, but you rarely actually make a CASE for what you purport. You just try to insult people. You're not even very good at that because it lacks the least bit of subtlety. It is obvious that you are bitter and your posts are just sour grapes.

You need to work on that.

Now, do you actually have an ARGUMENT or is this the best you can do?

 

[Revmitchell]

If you hold to any Reformed idea of election, you are seriously misguided.

Now you have gone and done it. Now you must be destroyed. :laugh:

 

[Revmitchell]

Then comes your cheer squad

:





To which I reply:




Luke, Luke, it gets tiring having to spell these things out for you, sigh. But, what’s pretty silly is that you missed my attack was on your fallacious reasoning, along with that others of your ilk would consider that reasoning of yours as valid/praiseworthy, and that I demonstrated how ridiculous your reasoning was by simply substituting “CHOICE” with “DETERMINISM” to validate my argument against your silly rhetorical fallacious argument by example.

But you either totally missed this point or purposely evaded it. You didn’t follow or respond to my argument about your reasoning at all, but came back with a response of going right for person who attacked your reasoning, starting with, I know “YOU” (More fallacy: Ad Hominem) while focusing on the emoticons thinking you might start a new argument by insulting me personally.

Then you offer some more nonsensical and illogical statement about determinism and conclude with saying it “my reasoning” is silly thereby further demonstrating that you have once again missed or are evading the point that this was YOUR REASONING with a simple word switch!! YOU SEE it is "applicable" in that my reasoning should be equally as meaningful as yours, and it is, WHICH MEANS it would have to be considered just as valid. BTW, in case you missed it, its not valid. WINK!

Luke, please don’t embarrass yourself further with demonstrations of criticizing your own reasoning, and do take a class on Basic Logic and Critical Thinking Skills so you are at least better at following the arguments whereby you further demonstrate your fallacious thinking when they are pointed to you, rather than just merely adding to the evidence against your poor critical thinking skills.

See when you do it you are being insulting. When Luke does it he is just being forceful with that gospel. Aint that convenient.

 

[Luke2427]

See when you do it you are being insulting. When Luke does it he is just being forceful with that gospel. Aint that convenient.

And when you do it...

Wait a second. The only thing you ever do is drive-by post.

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

You're at least two things:

1. Consistent. I've never seen anyone so comfortable with inflammatory, drive-by posting. EVER.

2. Good for a laugh. It is amazing how, no matter how many of us point it out to you, you still can't get it.

Please continue. This site needs something to laugh about.