God's dealing with His Son on the cross

[percho]

Did God pour out His anger, His wrath upon His Son, Christ, when He was crucified?

Did God pour out His anger, His wrath upon His Son, Christ,

Not all of it.

Much more then, being now justified by his blood, we shall be saved (vi Fut Pas 1 Pl) from wrath through him.

That wrath is still in the future.

What exactly is the wrath of God? What does it consist of?

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
Please address the post and the comments.


God bless.

I did,

Not sure how you think...

You have got to study propitiation. It will clear this up for you. This is no small or secondary issue.

...addresses what was said in my post.

your entire post is based on confusion and lack of understanding.

So show me why.

I do not say that as a slight but your comments about the wrath of God are no where near according to scripture

So show me what I said that is unorthodox and the truth you feel addresses that unorthodox view.

Or "I did" considered answer enough?

If that kind of teaching is the general rule...it's no wonder there is so much confusion in Modern Christendom. It's like saying to the sick..."Get better!"

and most certainly is not orthodox.

So show me why.

If you have questions ask and we will try to guide you but I would suggest you go back and study propitiation thoroughly before discussing it any further.

I have one question...will you address the post?

I'll be waiting for your orthodox dissertation.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Revmitchell View Post
You have got to study propitiation. It will clear this up for you. This is no small or secondary issue.

Yes. :thumbsup::applause:

Hello SG, I will at this time extend the invitation to address my post and to show why it is that you equate the wrath of God being poured out on the Son with Propitiation.

I mean, if you are going to applaud my view being called unorthodox (and I don't deny that, lol, and only suggest that perhaps what is considered "orthodox" by many can sometimes be erroneous), then I would expect you have a good reason for doing so.


God bless.

 

[Revmitchell]

Not sure how you think...





...addresses what was said in my post.




So show me why.




So show me what I said that is unorthodox and the truth you feel addresses that unorthodox view.

Or "I did" considered answer enough?

If that kind of teaching is the general rule...it's no wonder there is so much confusion in Modern Christendom. It's like saying to the sick..."Get better!"




So show me why.




I have one question...will you address the post?

I'll be waiting for your orthodox dissertation.


God bless.

Propitiation will clear it up for you. Until you study and understand that everything else is a non starter.

Do you know how many times over the years I have taken the time to create detailed explanations of things only to see it was ignored or dismissed. I'm not doing it anymore. You show me you understand propitiation and then I will know you are serious.

 

[Darrell C]

Propitiation will clear it up for you. Until you study and understand that everything else is a non starter.

Do you know how many times over the years I have taken the time to create detailed explanations of things only to see it was ignored or dismissed. I'm not doing it anymore. You show me you understand propitiation and then I will know you are serious.

So you have given up on teaching.

That is very sad to hear.

You are going to make people prove to you that they are worthy of your knowledge.

Got a Scripture for that?

I can tell you right now...I'm not the one confused about propitiation. And I would suggest that you have hastily responded without bothering to give my post any consideration.

Oh well, I guess one cop-out is as good as the next.




God bless.

 

[Revmitchell]

So you have given up on teaching.

That is very sad to hear.

You are going to make people prove to you that they are worthy of your knowledge.

Got a Scripture for that?

I can tell you right now...I'm not the one confused about propitiation. And I would suggest that you have hastily responded without bothering to give my post any consideration.

Oh well, I guess one cop-out is as good as the next.




God bless.

No, I gave a very single and significant word. "Propitiation". You have not demonstrated to me you understand it. Instead you have avoided dealing with it calling for me to give an unnecessary "dissertation".

Show me you understand propitiation and then we have common ground on which to speak. You made a very unorthodox and unscriptural claim about how wrath is not part of what God did in our salvation. You said very little about it beyond that. Instead of asking you for your "dissertation" I simply asked you to show your understanding of propitiation. I have seen none of it.

 

[Darrell C]

No, I gave a very single and significant word. "Propitiation". You have not demonstrated to me you understand it. Instead you have avoided dealing with it calling for me to give an unnecessary "dissertation".

Show me you understand propitiation and then we have common ground on which to speak. You made a very unorthodox and unscriptural claim about how wrath is not part of what God did in our salvation. You said very little about it beyond that. Instead of asking you for your "dissertation" I simply asked you to show your understanding of propitiation. I have seen none of it.

Not sure who you think you are, that someone has to prove what they know to you, lol, but if you refuse to support your derisive attitude against my post without stating exactly why, then okay.

I didn't ask for a worthy dissertation, simply called the hoped for response that. It is quite unlikely, in light of the fact that you have erroneously equated the pouring out of God's wrath upon Christ with Propitiation.

While our sin was placed upon Him, again (a point you could have addressed and perhaps would have avoided your comment), I do not equate that to the wrath which shall be poured out upon sinners.

So address those points made in the post or continue with your refusal to substantiate your charges.

Perhaps the Mods will close this thread as well, and the burden upon you be lifted.

Have to get going, but will check back to see if you are going to back up your arrogance or not.


God bless.

 

[Revmitchell]

Not sure who you think you are, that someone has to prove what they know to you, lol, but if you refuse to support your derisive attitude against my post without stating exactly why, then okay.

I didn't ask for a worthy dissertation, simply called the hoped for response that. It is quite unlikely, in light of the fact that you have erroneously equated the pouring out of God's wrath upon Christ with Propitiation.

While our sin was placed upon Him, again (a point you could have addressed and perhaps would have avoided your comment), I do not equate that to the wrath which shall be poured out upon sinners.

So address those points made in the post or continue with your refusal to substantiate your charges.

Perhaps the Mods will close this thread as well, and the burden upon you be lifted.

Have to get going, but will check back to see if you are going to back up your arrogance or not.


God bless.

Propitiation is the answer and it is the answer I gave. No further answer is needed. It explains exactly why your post is in error. I am sorry you feel that way the way you do. Serious error such as yours will get serious answers. You may not like that your doctrine is as bad as it is but exposing that is not derisive. Your doctrine is a very serious problem.

 

[robustheologian]

There will always be differing views on this since, while the Scriptures speak of atonement plenty of times, there is no theory concerning atonement outlined in Scriptures.

I must say, however, that the penal substitution view of atonement speaks of the wrath of God being laid on Christ instead of us. Isn't death and becoming a curse the wrath of God?

 

[SovereignGrace]

Hello SG, I will at this time extend the invitation to address my post and to show why it is that you equate the wrath of God being poured out on the Son with Propitiation.

I mean, if you are going to applaud my view being called unorthodox (and I don't deny that, lol, and only suggest that perhaps what is considered "orthodox" by many can sometimes be erroneous), then I would expect you have a good reason for doing so.


God bless.

I did answer it in post # 15, you do not agree with it.

 

[Darrell C]

I did answer it in post # 15, you do not agree with it.

How does...

To say that God's wrath was not directed at and upon Jesus on the cross is quite mind-numbing. Look at the word 'propitiation' used in 1 John 2:2:

It means to appease, placate, pacify, &c.




http://www.theopedia.com/propitiation

...address my post?

And in this post you are saying...I don't agree with what this states about propitiation?

Perhaps if you answer my question and show how propitiation is equated to "God's wrath being poured out on His Son," then you might be providing an answer.

Now let's look at the word used in 1 John 2:2...


1 John 2

King James Version (KJV)

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Where in this context, with a word used twice in Scripture, do you justify your position that God poured out His wrath upon Christ, and how that leads to your mind becoming numb? lol

I would really like to help you with that mind numbness, but you are going to have to address how your understanding of something Christ did negates what I originally stated.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Originally Posted by Darrell C View Post
So you have given up on teaching.

That is very sad to hear.

You are going to make people prove to you that they are worthy of your knowledge.

Got a Scripture for that?

I can tell you right now...I'm not the one confused about propitiation. And I would suggest that you have hastily responded without bothering to give my post any consideration.

Oh well, I guess one cop-out is as good as the next.




God bless.

No, I gave a very single and significant word. "Propitiation".

It's a cop-out, and again, very disturbing that you could hold yourself in a position that you would not deign to correct, with the Word of God, someone you felt was in error.

So it comes across like this, you see someone you view as seriously in error and holding to unorthodox belief...and you do nothing to correct it.

Shame on you Mitchell.

Would you also step to the other side of the road should you see someone laying in a ditch?

You have not demonstrated to me you understand it.

Well, bend your ear from up on high and I will do what I can to try to explain to you the reason why your use, as well as your fellow member's, of Propitiation as a means to substantiate a blasphemous view that God poured out His wrath upon Christ is what I myself see as serious and unorthodox (from a Biblical view as opposed to a Breakfast Club view) error.



You see, I won't give up on you, my friend. My hope is that you will do your duty, and if you think me foolish, then it is you that are called to put me to silence.

The primary point concerning Christ is what?

That He died for our sin, right?

And while He was beaten, and suffered greatly at the hands of man, I will remind you that was...at the hands of men.

Do you think that Christ went to Hades and was there tortured, or punished?

The answer is no.

He is our propitiation through His death, not some ill-conceived mythology that may have gained favor in Modern Christendom.

If you need Scripture and verse on that point, you be sure to let me know. Who knows but that there might even be some more brain numbing to be had in this thread.

Instead you have avoided dealing with it calling for me to give an unnecessary "dissertation".

It's a common tendency, when charged by someone as you have charged me, to demand a basis for that charge, not "You are wrong so go study propitiation and correct your error. I don't need to actually address what you said, I am content simply to be insulting and my work here is done."

lol

Okay, let's look at Propitiation:


Romans 3:24-26

King James Version (KJV)

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


So far I see nothing that would incline me to believe that God poured out His wrath upon the Son. But I do see His death mentioned.

Now think about it: Who is our propitiation? Who did what?

It was Christ who died. Salvation is accomplished through the shed blood of Christ...and nothing else. It did not require that Christ experience the wrath of God, though that is a popular teaching, but that He die in our stead. And while we see this death in terms of the eternal, rather than simply physical death, that is what Scripture attributes salvation to.


1 John 2:1-2

King James Version (KJV)

1 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


Nope, nothing about he wrath of God being poured out on Christ there either.


1 John 4:10

King James Version (KJV)

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.


Nothing there either by which I might be inclined your charge of an unorthodox view is valid.

So could you lower yourself down to my level long enough to explain this?


Continued...

 

[Darrell C]

Show me you understand propitiation and then we have common ground on which to speak.

What is there to understand? You act as if this is some complicated matter.

In our first proof-text we see...


Romans 3:24-26

King James Version (KJV)

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


...that in view is not a concept of wrath being poured out, but the means of propitiation itself, which is Christ.

Strong's lists Biblical usage thus:


I.relating to an appeasing or expiating, having placating or expiating force, expiatory; a means of appeasing or expiating, a propitiation

A.used of the cover of the ark of the covenant in the Holy of Holies, which was sprinkled with the blood of the expiatory victim on the annual day of atonement (this rite signifying that the life of the people, the loss of which they had merited by their sins, was offered to God in the blood as the life of the victim, and that God by this ceremony was appeased and their sins expiated); hence the lid of expiation, the propitiatory


B.an expiatory sacrifice


C.a expiatory victim


So was God pouring out His Wrath...on the Mercy Seat?

Is not the focus of Propitiation...Christ?


And our next two proof-texts:


1 John 2:2

King James Version (KJV)

2 And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.


1 John 4:10

King James Version (KJV)

10 Herein is love, not that we loved God, but that he loved us, and sent his Son to be the propitiation for our sins.



No, cannot possibly impose God pouring out His wrath on His Son here either.

Strong's Biblical usage:



I.an appeasing, propitiating


II.the means of appeasing, a propitiation


And just as we saw in the first proof-text, the focus is on Christ. He is the means of appeasement through His death, which, as I think I stated in the post you refuse to address, was the purpose for His coming in the first place.

That God might satisfy the requirement of death on the part of sinful man.

While it may be unorthodox, I maintain my view that God did not abandon Christ nor pour out His wrath upon Him. I view the quotation of David, My God, My God, why hast Thou forsaken me to have more importance in regards to Messiah identified with man than the thought that the One God of Heaven had somehow at this time become separated into Two. The sheer immensity of such a concept threatens what I would view as orthodox.

And I gave this verse...


John 16:32

King James Version (KJV)

32 Behold, the hour cometh, yea, is now come, that ye shall be scattered, every man to his own, and shall leave me alone: and yet I am not alone, because the Father is with me.


...for consideration.

Christ speaks of the time when all should leave Him alone, but He was not...alone. Because the Father was with Him.

What is closer to orthodoxy is that what took place was not the pouring out of wrath, but this...


John 17:5

King James Version (KJV)

5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.


And this...


Luke 24:25-26

King James Version (KJV)

25 Then he said unto them, O fools, and slow of heart to believe all that the prophets have spoken:

26 Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?


What things does Christ refer to here?


Luke 24:5-7

King James Version (KJV)

5 And as they were afraid, and bowed down their faces to the earth, they said unto them, Why seek ye the living among the dead?

6 He is not here, but is risen: remember how he spake unto you when he was yet in Galilee,

7 Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

You made a very unorthodox and unscriptural claim about how wrath is not part of what God did in our salvation.

Great, you have expressed your opinion, now present the Scripture to show God pouring out His wrath on His Son.

Let me remind you of something we are all familiar with, but perhaps forget sometimes:


John 19:30

King James Version (KJV)

30 When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost.


Was it the wrath of God that drove the nails in His hands? Was there more to be accomplished? Did Christ make a mistake in thinking...it was finished?

And by the way...quote me saying "wrath is not part of what God did in our salvation." Because you didn't bother to consider what was said you responded to something I didn't even say.

You said very little about it beyond that.

I said enough to justify an address rather than simply charging me with an unorthodox view.

Instead of asking you for your "dissertation" I simply asked you to show your understanding of propitiation.

So that is how it works?

You can express opinions without basis, and then burden your antagonist with proving themselves...to you?

How is that M.O. working out for you?

I have seen none of it.

And no wonder, you apparently haven't even seen the post you responded to.

But that's okay. I would suggest to you, though, that you have a responsibility to teach, not simply tell people to go get taught, or to teach themselves. You have a responsibility to address false doctrine, and while doing so...show a little compassion for those engaged in it.

Your responses tell me "I am okay with you dying and going into a Christless eternity." Sorry, but that is just how it comes across to me. It says "I will choose who I will correct, and who I will let go on their merry way in error."

Tighten up.


God bless.

 

[SovereignGrace]

Darrell C,

Propitiation is an action meant to regain someone's favor or make up for something you did wrong. You might offer your mom a plate of chocolate chip cookies in propitiation for killing all her houseplants while she was away.

Propitiation comes from a form of the Latin verb "propitiare," which means “to appease.” If you’re doing something in propitiation, that’s your basic goal: to regain favor. Propitiation often involves a god or gods, traditional or not. If your team lost last year's championship, propitiation of the football gods may be necessary this year. More broadly you can offer propitiation to anyone you need to appease. Propitiation may be needed if you show up late to class again.


Definitions of propitiation

1.
the act of placating and overcoming distrust and animosity

Synonyms:conciliation, placation Type of:appeasement, calming
the act of appeasing (as by acceding to the demands of)


2. the act of atoning for sin or wrongdoing (especially appeasing a deity)

Synonyms:atonement, expiationTypes:amends, reparation
something done or paid in expiation of a wrong
Type of:redemption, salvation
(theology) the act of delivering from sin or saving from evil

http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/propitiation


When Christ was crucified, He:

1) Was the atoning sacrifice by shedding His blood
2) Propitiated our sins by turning God's wrath away from us onto Himself, thereby satisfying God's demand that sin must be paid for
3) Brought reconciliation to us by repairing what damage Adam did when he sinned in the Garden
4) Paid for our sins because we could never satisfy that debt we owed to God
5) Expiated Himself on behalf of us, by paying for what we could not(which is probably pretty close, if not, # 4)


No sin will go unpunished, for it will either be paid for in the sinner of the Sinbearer, Christ.

When Christ drank of that bitter cup in Gethsamane, He ingested our sins, therefore, He became sin, though He never knew sin. God's wrath was meted unto Him upon the cross, and Christ paid for it by giving His natural body to die for us.

 

[SovereignGrace]

David Guzik:

d. And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins: This means that Jesus is the one who atones for and takes away our sins, and not only our sins, but also the sins of the whole world.

i. Propitiation has the idea of presenting a gift to the gods, so as to turn away the displeasure of the gods. The Greeks thought of this in the sense of man essentially bribing the gods into doing favors for man. But in the Christian idea of propitiation, God Himself presents Himself (in Jesus Christ) as that which will turn away His righteous wrath against our sin.

ii. Alford on propitiation: "The word implies that Christ has, as our sin-offering, reconciled God and us by nothing else but by His voluntary death as a sacrifice: has by this averted God's wrath from us."

https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide_1Jo/1Jo_2.cfm

 

[SovereignGrace]

Albert Barnes:

1 John 2:2

And he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.
And he is the propitiation for our sins - The word rendered "propitiation" (ἱλασμός hilasmos) occurs nowhere else in the New Testament, except in 1 John 4:10 of this Epistle; though words of the same derivation, and having the same essential meaning, frequently occur. The corresponding word ἱλαστήριον hilastērion occurs in Romans 3:25, rendered "propitiation" - "whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood;" and in Hebrews 9:5, rendered mercy-seat - "shadowing the mercy-seat." The verb ἱλάσκομαι hilaskomai occurs also in Luke 18:3 - God be merciful to me a sinner;" and Hebrews 2:17 - "to make reconciliation for the sins of the people." For the idea expressed by these words, see the notes at Romans 3:25. The proper meaning of the word is that of reconciling, appeasing, turning away anger, rendering propitious or favorable. The idea is, that there is anger or wrath, or that something has been done to offend, and that it is needful to turn away that wrath, or to appease. This may be done by a sacrifice, by songs, by services rendered, or by bloody offerings. So the word is often used in Homer - Passow. We have similar words in common use, as when we say of one that he has been offended, and that something must be done to appease him, or to turn away his wrath. This is commonly done with us by making restitution; or by an acknowledgment; or by yielding the point in controversy; or by an expression of regret; or by different conduct in time to come. But this idea must not be applied too literally to God; nor should it be explained away. The essential thoughts in regard to him, as implied in this word, are:

(1) that his will has been disregarded, and his law violated, and that he has reason to be offended with us;

(2) that in that condition he cannot, consistently with his perfections, and the good of the universe, treat us as if we had not done it;

(3) that it is proper that, in some way, he should show his displeasure at our conduct, either by punishing us, or by something that shall answer the same purpose; and,

(4) that the means of propitiation come in here, and accomplish this end, and make it proper that he should treat us as if we had not sinned; that is, he is reconciled, or appeased, and his anger is turned away.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C,

Propitiation is an action meant to regain someone's favor or make up for something you did wrong. You might offer your mom a plate of chocolate chip cookies in propitiation for killing all her houseplants while she was away.

Propitiation comes from a form of the Latin verb "propitiare," which means “to appease.” If you’re doing something in propitiation, that’s your basic goal: to regain favor. Propitiation often involves a god or gods, traditional or not. If your team lost last year's championship, propitiation of the football gods may be necessary this year. More broadly you can offer propitiation to anyone you need to appease. Propitiation may be needed if you show up late to class again.


Definitions of propitiation

1.
the act of placating and overcoming distrust and animosity

Synonyms:conciliation, placation Type of:appeasement, calming
the act of appeasing (as by acceding to the demands of)


2. the act of atoning for sin or wrongdoing (especially appeasing a deity)

Synonyms:atonement, expiationTypes:amends, reparation
something done or paid in expiation of a wrong
Type of:redemption, salvation
(theology) the act of delivering from sin or saving from evil

http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/propitiation


When Christ was crucified, He:

1) Was the atoning sacrifice by shedding His blood

Agreed.

2) Propitiated our sins by turning God's wrath away from us onto Himself, thereby satisfying God's demand that sin must be paid for

Great, again I ask you...where is your Biblical substantiation?

Show me where "God poured out His wrath on His Son."

The Wrath of God was ours, amigo, not Christ's. His death has removed that wrath from us.

3) Brought reconciliation to us by repairing what damage Adam did when he sinned in the Garden

Agreed.

4) Paid for our sins because we could never satisfy that debt we owed to God

Agreed.

5) Expiated Himself on behalf of us, by paying for what we could not(which is probably pretty close, if not, # 4)

Expiated Himself?

You might want to consult that secular dictionary you gain your understanding of the Propitiation of Christ and see what they have to say about expiation, and how it is you charge Christ with sin.

No sin will go unpunished, for it will either be paid for in the sinner of the Sinbearer, Christ.

The wording is atrocious, but I think I know what you are trying to say, and I agree.

When Christ drank of that bitter cup in Gethsamane, He ingested our sins, therefore, He became sin, though He never knew sin.

Agreed. But how does that equate to "God poured out His Wrath (which was directed at sinners) on His Son"?

God's wrath was meted unto Him upon the cross,

Scripture?

and Christ paid for it by giving His natural body to die for us.

So God's wrath was poured out on Christ's natural body?

Sorry, but God did not drive the nails into His natural body...men did.

You are seeking to justify your position and you are only digging yourself in deeper.

Present the Scripture that states "God poured out His wrath upon His Son," and explain how Christ "expiated Himself."


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

David Guzik:



https://www.blueletterbible.org/Comm/guzik_david/StudyGuide_1Jo/1Jo_2.cfm

Albert Barnes:

Neither of these change the fact that the wrath of God, which Christ appeased, was directed, not at His Son, but at men.

Did God consider the animals that died in the stead of men sinful?

In seeking to justify your position you are imputing to God something that I simply a popular notion.

Please stop quoting what men have to say to justify your position...quote Scripture.


God bless.

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

Darrell C,




http://www.vocabulary.com/dictionary/propitiation


When Christ was crucified, He:

1) Was the atoning sacrifice by shedding His blood
2) Propitiated our sins by turning God's wrath away from us onto Himself, thereby satisfying God's demand that sin must be paid for
3) Brought reconciliation to us by repairing what damage Adam did when he sinned in the Garden
4) Paid for our sins because we could never satisfy that debt we owed to God
5) Expiated Himself on behalf of us, by paying for what we could not(which is probably pretty close, if not, # 4)


No sin will go unpunished, for it will either be paid for in the sinner of the Sinbearer, Christ.

When Christ drank of that bitter cup in Gethsamane, He ingested our sins, therefore, He became sin, though He never knew sin. God's wrath was meted unto Him upon the cross, and Christ paid for it by giving His natural body to die for us.

This, "~by giving His natural body to die for us~" isn't grace or the love of God at all. If not GOD the Son laid down his OWN LIFE for our sins, the "~natural body~" which supposedly had "~to die for us~", died like one of us, a ~natural~ mortal, sinner's death, IN VAIN.

"Ought not Christ to have suffered these things, and to enter into his glory?"

"~When Christ drank of that bitter cup in Gethsamane,~" "Christ suffered these things AND enter(ed) into his glory".

The suffering and the entering into glory are simultaneous and identical.

Jesus descended to hell as the Confession states in that He Suffered and in that He Suffered, CONQUERED.

Paradise regained was Paradise lost; and Paradise lost was hell and was the battlefield of TRIUMPH for the Son of Man. The Kingdom of the Father -- Eden -- was regained and restored.

Hell came not after Jesus died. Hell was obliterated before Jesus died and Jesus in his death is Christ under the glory of the Shekinah of the Almighty. Jesus' grave was the Most Holy Place wherein WHEN GOD RAISED HIM FROM THE DEAD, "GOD, RAISED CHRIST BY THE GLORY OF THE FATHER." "Being rested up again HIS NAME IS : THE MOST HOLY PLACE" ---Himself!

 

[Gerhard Ebersoehn]

. . . explain how Christ "expiated Himself."

"I have power to lay down my life."

"to lay down" = "~expiate Himself~".

Jesus "poured out" his blood pouring out, that is, expiating his LIFE upon the 'altar' of his and his Father's OWN WILL.

The life of animal sacrifices was poured out in and with their blood, like the life of the man-sinner ought to have been poured out for his sins.

But Christ stepped forward in the sinner’s place and poured out his love and very life and soul for him as shed He his own blood in the sinner’s stead.