God's desire

[Brightfame52]

This is a false claim.

Does God desire all people (1 Timothy 2:4) to be saved unconditionally, or only according to His redemption plan?

Since all people are not saved, for example the person headed for swift destruction in 2 Peter 2:1, then God's desire is not unconditionally applied, but conditionally applied, to those whose faith in Christ He credits as righteous faith.

In order to make this possibility of salvation available to all humanity, Christ died as a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:6.)

God only desires all His Elect to be saved., and they all shall be saved.

 

[Van]

Your constant misunderstanding of faith and God judging faith afterward instead of seeing faith as righteous because God graciously gave it as a gift is your huge obstacle that you cannot overcome. Consequently you get things all twisted up and wrong. You keep asserting falsehood (Vanology) that God does not assert. I keep praying God knocks some sense into you.

Your constant off topic personal attacks betray a feeble mind.
Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-25 has not been deleted from my bible.
My views are based on scripture, yours on adding to scripture, deleting from scripture, and rewriting scripture.

 

[Van]

I know the Bible, as translated by Van, is no better than the Bible that Thomas Jefferson translated.

Your posts prove your understanding of scripture denies its message just as Mr. Jefferson tried to deny God's miracles.

 

[Van]

God only desires all His Elect to be saved., and they all shall be saved.

That is you presenting falselogy, whereas 1 Timothy 2:4 says God desires all people to be saved.

Everyone God saves by transferring them individually into Christ's spiritual body, is according to His conditional election through credited faith. So only those conditionally saved are saved according to His redemption plan.

 

[AustinC]

Your posts prove your understanding of scripture denies its message just as Mr. Jefferson tried to deny God's miracles.

It proves your translation is awful, as many others have pointed out to you.

 

[AustinC]

Your constant off topic personal attacks betray a feeble mind.
Romans 4:4-5 and Romans 4:23-25 has not been deleted from my bible.
My views are based on scripture, yours on adding to scripture, deleting from scripture, and rewriting scripture.

Not off-topic. Only personal to you because your theology is so awful and you will not accept correction from anyone.

 

[Van]

It proves your translation is awful, as many others have pointed out to you.

LOL, taint so after taint so but no excavating God's word to dig up truth.
And absolutely no acknowledgement that if God credits our faith as righteous faith, He then bestowals His blessings such as salvation.

 

[Van]

Not off-topic. Only personal to you because your theology is so awful and you will not accept correction from anyone.

One false charge after another. Folks, ask yourselves why Falselogy advocates berate those who disagree rather than explicate scripture?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Do you believe that God takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked? Or do you believe God will forgo judgment?

I do not believe either of those things.
A human judge who took pleasure in condemning people, however wicked, to death would be most unsuitable.
To have a human judge who let the guilty off because of sentiment would be equally so.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Does God desire all people (1 Timothy 2:4) to be saved unconditionally, or only according to His redemption plan?

Since all people are not saved, for example the person headed for swift destruction in 2 Peter 2:1, then God's desire is not unconditionally applied, but conditionally applied, to those whose faith in Christ He credits as righteous faith.

In order to make this possibility of salvation available to all humanity, Christ died as a ransom for all (1 Timothy 2:6.)

If you want to know what God desires, you need to read John 6:39. "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but raise it up at the last day." Not one of those for whom our Lord died will be lost.
And John 6:40 is also God's will. "And this is the wil of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day." No one who trusts in Christ for salvation will be lost.

 

[Van]

If you want to know what God desires, you need to read John 6:39. "This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but raise it up at the last day." Not one of those for whom our Lord died will be lost.
And John 6:40 is also God's will. "And this is the wil of Him who sent Me, that everyone who sees the Son and believes in Him may have everlasting life; and I will raise him up at the last day." No one who trusts in Christ for salvation will be lost.

Thanks for agreeing with me.

 

[JonC]

I do not believe either of those things.
A human judge who took pleasure in condemning people, however wicked, to death would be most unsuitable.
To have a human judge who let the guilty off because of sentiment would be equally so.

I agree. But others here have presented God as less than perfect if anything occurs contrary to God's pleasure.

But we know that is false, as you point out, even from human experience.

We desire the best for our children. We desire that they are blessed. We desire they have a good life. We don't desire they suffer. Yet we discipline them (which is suffering). We do not take pleasure in that, but it is still our will (our "pleasure", or "desire") that they are disciplined.

 

[Brightfame52]

That is you presenting falselogy, whereas 1 Timothy 2:4 says God desires all people to be saved.

Everyone God saves by transferring them individually into Christ's spiritual body, is according to His conditional election through credited faith. So only those conditionally saved are saved according to His redemption plan.

Thats the Truth, what God desires He does just that J0b 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

 

[Brightfame52]

God does what He pleases, what He desires, or wants Ps 115:3

But our God is in the heavens: he hath done whatsoever he hath pleased.

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Thanks for agreeing with me.

I'm glad to learn that you've seen the light and become a Calvinist.

 

[AustinC]

LOL, taint so after taint so but no excavating God's word to dig up truth.
And absolutely no acknowledgement that if God credits our faith as righteous faith, He then bestowals His blessings such as salvation.

One false charge after another. Folks, ask yourselves why Falselogy advocates berate those who disagree rather than explicate scripture?

 

[Martin Marprelate]

I agree. But others here have presented God as less than perfect if anything occurs contrary to God's pleasure.

But we know that is false, as you point out, even from human experience.

We desire the best for our children. We desire that they are blessed. We desire they have a good life. We don't desire they suffer. Yet we discipline them (which is suffering). We do not take pleasure in that, but it is still our will (our "pleasure", or "desire") that they are disciplined.

I don't think you quite understand.
If God desires all men to be saved, then saved they will be.. But we know that justifying the wicked or condemning the righteous is an abomination to God. Therefore He doesn't do it. It gives God no pleasure to see the wicked perish, but it does give Him satisfaction to see that justice is done. God never does anything contrary to Hiis own will..

 

[JonC]

I don't think you quite understand.
If God desires all men to be saved, then saved they will be.. But we know that justifying the wicked or condemning the righteous is an abomination to God. Therefore He doesn't do it. It gives God no pleasure to see the wicked perish, but it does give Him satisfaction to see that justice is done. God never does anything contrary to Hiis own will..

I understand what you are saying, but I am saying it is incorrect.

The reason is if placed in a different context, then God desires the destruction of the wicked. In one aspect, this is true as God's will is that the wicked are destroyed. Yet on another it is false, as God takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked and (as you pointed out) God does as He pleased.

I do get why (other than Calvinism) you would interpret the passage the way you do (salvation being extended to the Gentiles), but I do not believe your case would prevail except via reading your theology into the passage.

 

[Brightfame52]

jon c

, as God takes no pleasure in the destruction of the wicked

If they are elect. There was a remnant in Israel according to the election of grace when Ezk made that statement specifically to the house of Israel, not all the world over Ezk 33:11


Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

 

[JonC]

jon c


If they are elect. There was a remnant in Israel according to the election of grace when Ezk made that statement specifically to the house of Israel, not all the world over Ezk 33:11


Say unto them, As I live, saith the Lord God, I have no pleasure in the death of the wicked; but that the wicked turn from his way and live: turn ye, turn ye from your evil ways; for why will ye die, O house of Israel?

Yes, the passage is a call to repentance. The verse is close to demonstrating that God desires all men (Jew and Gentile) come to a knowledge of the truth, that none perish.

At the same time, many of Israel (of the ones towards which the words were directed) were destroyed.

This is a repeated theme throughout Scripture - God desires that all men repent. Those who do not are willfully acting against God's desire.

The only alternative is that the lost please God in their disobedience, that God takes pleasure in evil.