God's Devil

[Luke2427]

Luke has been asked this question often, but he thus far will not answer. He doesn't seem to realize that everything in God's Word doesn't have to do with Calvinism.

I would really like to see an answer to this question.

What you do not realize is that everything about Calvinism has to do with God's Word.

 

[Luke2427]

You are correct. Based on the teaching of brother Luke, God chooses to torment some men for eternity, not because of the choices that man has made in life, but God torments those men simply because it pleases God. It pleases God to torment men.

No, Brother. You still haven't got it. God does torment men in hell for the choices they make.

 

[preacher4truth]

Then on top of that, God Elects some to go to Hell and some to go to Heaven also, to show what a Great God He is and to bring glory to Himself....Amazing, its a wonder that everyone just does not see the truth in all of this.:godisgood:

Do those going to Hell not deserve it, being unclean still, and wicked still, and unjust still? How can God not be seen as good for giving them their due, even the same which was due us before we knew Christ? Or did we just not deserve such a severe punishment?


You're right, God is good. His judgment is just. So is His condemnation upon all lost mankind.

:thumbsup:

 

[matt wade]

Do those going to Hell not deserve it, being unclean still, and wicked still, and unjust still? How can God not be seen as good for giving them their due, even the same which was due us before we knew Christ? Or did we just not deserve such a severe punishment?

No, sir, this is where you have it wrong. Man is not responsible for his actions. Man only acts because God is the cause of it. That a man is tormented in Hell has nothing to do with the man and everything to do with God. God does it solely because it pleases Him, not because of anything man did. Man can do nothing to gain entrance to heaven, even as man can do nothing to gain entrance to Hell. Everything is caused by God.

 

[preacher4truth]

No, sir, this is where you have it wrong. Man is not responsible for his actions. Man only acts because God is the cause of it. That a man is tormented in Hell has nothing to do with the man and everything to do with God. God does it solely because it pleases Him, not because of anything man did. Man can do nothing to gain entrance to heaven, even as man can do nothing to gain entrance to Hell. Everything is caused by God.

I know matt. I've watched you twist the words of luke2427 to absurdity. You don't understand what he is saying here at all, so this is what you resort to. Why make him say what he hasn't?

How about some real dialogue without the sarcasm and anger?

I think Luke2427 has you down for the count, and this is the only way you can respond, having lost.

I suppose you could prove me wrong, but I have my doubts after seeing your typical responses on many threads.

BTW, Luke2427 never said it pleases God to torment man, you came up with that all ony our own. Some of your threads on this poll are borderline irreverent.

 

[matt wade]

I know matt. I've watched you twist the words of luke2427 to absurdity. You don't understand what he is saying here at all, so this is what you resort to. Why make him say what he hasn't?

How about some real dialogue without the sarcasm and anger?

I think Luke2427 has you down for the count, and this is the only way you can respond, having lost.

I suppose you could prove me wrong, but I have my doubts after seeing your typical responses on many threads.

BTW, Luke2427 never said it pleases God to torment man, you came up with that all ony our own. Some of your threads on this poll are borderline irreverent.

God is the cause of all things. If men are tormented for eternity, God is the cause of it. The logical conclusion is that it pleases God to do it. God would not do it unless it pleased Him.

 

[preacher4truth]

God is the cause of all things. If men are tormented for eternity, God is the cause of it. The logical conclusion is that it pleases God to do it. God would not do it unless it pleased Him.

You say God is the cause of all things though it is a clear misrepresentation of what luke2427 has tried to explain to you. But how you ever get to it is a logical conclusion that it pleases God to torment people is clearly not logical. However you arrive at this is actually kind of scary. :wavey:

 

[slave 4 Christ]

No, sir, this is where you have it wrong. Man is not responsible for his actions. Man only acts because God is the cause of it. That a man is tormented in Hell has nothing to do with the man and everything to do with God. God does it solely because it pleases Him, not because of anything man did. Man can do nothing to gain entrance to heaven, even as man can do nothing to gain entrance to Hell. Everything is caused by God.

Mr. wade,

Your posts have become distracting and very unhelpful.

To engage in debate it is certainly allowable to somewhat parody your opponents position, but in doing so you should counter with your own position.

Your replies in regard to Bro. Luke's position have been attacks and not helpful debate.

I urge you not to cease posting your disagreements with Bro. Luke, but do give a position that is not facetious. (facetious - treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant)

 

[matt wade]

Mr. wade,

Your posts have become distracting and very unhelpful.

To engage in debate it is certainly allowable to somewhat parody your opponents position, but in doing so you should counter with your own position.

Your replies in regard to Bro. Luke's position have been attacks and not helpful debate.

I urge you not to cease posting your disagreements with Bro. Luke, but do give a position that is not facetious. (facetious - treating serious issues with deliberately inappropriate humor; flippant)

Luke's goal has been to win converts to Calvinism. He has succeeded in me. I am now a hyper-Calvinist and proud of it. Why do you mock me?

 

[Robert Snow]

What you do not realize is that everything about Calvinism has to do with God's Word.

What you fail to realize is that very little about God's Word has to do with Calvinism.

Speaking of Calvinism (something we rarely do, right), we have a new pastor at our church and he mentioned the other night that his favorite translation is the ESV. When we got home from church, I told my wife I was disturbed by this statement. She asked me why, and I said it is because this is the bible many reformed theology pastors use. Today, I was talking to my pastor, and he assured me he is not a Calvinist, he just likes the ESV. I was relieved that I don't have to look for a new church.

 

[Luke2427]

What you fail to realize is that very little about God's Word has to do with Calvinism.

Speaking of Calvinism (something we rarely do, right), we have a new pastor at our church and he mentioned the other night that his favorite translation is the ESV. When we got home from church, I told my wife I was disturbed by this statement. She asked me why, and I said it is because this is the bible many reformed theology pastors use. Today, I was talking to my pastor, and he assured me he is not a Calvinist, he just likes the ESV. I was relieved that I don't have to look for a new church.

It is a crying shame that Charles Haddon Spurgeon couldn't pastor you.

Where does that put you in historical Christianity?

Martin Luther could not pastor you.

John Huss and John Wycliff could not pastor you.

St. Augustine could not pastor you.

You could not have attended church with the Pilgrims or the Puritans.

[personal attacks edited]

 

[Robert Snow]

It is a crying shame that Charles Haddon Spurgeon couldn't pastor you.

A crying shame.

Where does that put you in historical Christianity?

Martin Luther could not pastor you.

John Huss and John Wycliff could not pastor you.

St. Augustine could not pastor you.

You could not have attended church with the Pilgrims or the Puritans.

You literally would have resisted the Great Awakening.

What a mess you are. Do you not know it?

Well, I might sit under Spurgeon, he wasn't as hyper as you. I certainly wouldn't sit under you, that's for sure!

 

[preacher4truth]

What you fail to realize is that very little about God's Word has to do with Calvinism.

Not even close Robert. For you to even state this shows you are a non-thinker and are merely polemic and biased in your assumptions and debate. For you to say this, would imply you have a repository of information, and an infallible debate to refute most, if not all orthodox theology.

Calvins teachings are not only TULIP. (yeah, I know, he didn't make up this acronym. It was at the Synod of Dordrecht or Dort)

 

[jbh28]

Well, I might sit under Spurgeon, he wasn't as hyper as you. I certainly wouldn't sit under you, that's for sure!

So Luke, in what ways are you more hyper than Spurgeon?

 

[slave 4 Christ]

Luke's goal has been to win converts to Calvinism. He has succeeded in me. I am now a hyper-Calvinist and proud of it. Why do you mock me?

Luke's goal has been to win converts to Calvinism.

This section of BB is called Baptist Debate Forums.
When one debates his goal is to "win" the opposition. This is accomplished by point and counterpoint. There is no problem with Bro. Luke's goal.

He has succeeded in me. I am now a hyper-Calvinist and proud of it.

If the above quote is true, then I have mis-judged your intentions. Please accept my sincere apology.

But, if I have not mis-judged your intentions; then consider the implications of your actions, ie. saying you are something you are not.

Mr. wade you did not tell the truth.

 

[Humblesmith]

I did not say "direct".

Did God FORCE Lucifer to revolt? No. But his revolt was a result of God withdrawing his goodness from the heart of Lucifer and leaving Lucifer to himself.

Did God FORCE Adam to sin? No. But sin cannot dwell in the presence of God's holy goodness and in order for Adam to be able to sin God had to withdraw it from him.

What power did Adam and Lucifer utilize to rebel? There is only one source of power in and above the universe- God's.

Did Lucifer and Adam make choices uncompelled? Absolutely.

Luke:

I'm dropping this after this post, for it is not a worthwhile use of time. But respectfully, I would encourage you to be cautious in your language. At best you are imprecise and unintentionally contraictory. Many times you are dancing on the brink of heresy. The bolded portion above is enough to get you excommunicated, while the unbolded portion is on much more solid ground theologically.

For the sake of your soul, be very cautious and careful in the statements you are making. This is very serious, and not a debate game. While you are starting on solid ground, in your zeal to glorify God you are extending past orthodoxy. For your own sake, I would encourage you to voluntarily silence yourself until you are more clear about what is heresy and what is orthodox.

My prayer is that you are Christian, and are just merely imprecise and unclear, and are not lost. But I cannot tell from your statements, for they dance back and forth across the line. Be cautious, my friend.

I'm done here.

 

[Gabriel Elijah]

I wonder how much freedom God has given Satan? To say that God has Satan under his authority is completely scriptural, but does Satan have to ask God before he can go out and do the evil that he does? Or has God given the devil the freedom to run things amuck as long as he does not pass a certain limit? What exactly is this limit & how often does Satan have to ask God’s permission?

 

[matt wade]

This section of BB is called Baptist Debate Forums.
When one debates his goal is to "win" the opposition. This is accomplished by point and counterpoint. There is no problem with Bro. Luke's goal.

I never stated their was a problem with Luke's goal.

If the above quote is true, then I have mis-judged your intentions. Please accept my sincere apology.

But, if I have not mis-judged your intentions; then consider the implications of your actions, ie. saying you are something you are not.

Mr. wade you did not tell the truth.

I accept your apology.

 

[Nicholas25]

Luke:

I'm dropping this after this post, for it is not a worthwhile use of time. But respectfully, I would encourage you to be cautious in your language. At best you are imprecise and unintentionally contraictory. Many times you are dancing on the brink of heresy. The bolded portion above is enough to get you excommunicated, while the unbolded portion is on much more solid ground theologically.

For the sake of your soul, be very cautious and careful in the statements you are making. This is very serious, and not a debate game. While you are starting on solid ground, in your zeal to glorify God you are extending past orthodoxy. For your own sake, I would encourage you to voluntarily silence yourself until you are more clear about what is heresy and what is orthodox.

My prayer is that you are Christian, and are just merely imprecise and unclear, and are not lost. But I cannot tell from your statements, for they dance back and forth across the line. Be cautious, my friend.

I'm done here.

Luke2427 is a Calvinist. He speaks Calvinism. Those of you who are shocked by his words evidently have never studied or heard the theology. I would be careful about questioning anothers salvation.

 

[idonthavetimeforthis]

Luke:

I'm dropping this after this post, for it is not a worthwhile use of time. But respectfully, I would encourage you to be cautious in your language. At best you are imprecise and unintentionally contraictory. Many times you are dancing on the brink of heresy. The bolded portion above is enough to get you excommunicated, while the unbolded portion is on much more solid ground theologically.

For the sake of your soul, be very cautious and careful in the statements you are making. This is very serious, and not a debate game. While you are starting on solid ground, in your zeal to glorify God you are extending past orthodoxy. For your own sake, I would encourage you to voluntarily silence yourself until you are more clear about what is heresy and what is orthodox.

My prayer is that you are Christian, and are just merely imprecise and unclear, and are not lost. But I cannot tell from your statements, for they dance back and forth across the line. Be cautious, my friend.

I'm done here.

First of all, let me say that I do not have it all figured out when it comes to everything that is being debated on this board. :thumbs:

But who defines heresy? Are you the heretic definer for the Baptist Board? I wonder - maybe you can do a poll - how many people find Luke to be heretical versus those who think he is just being overzealous versus those who think he is absolutely right. There's a big difference in being a lost heretic bound for an eternal hell & being an overzealous believer who wants to glorify God in all he says & does. As for me, I have enjoyed reading these debates concerning DoG, etc. because it has given me much to think about & consider. So, keep on debating, but without the whining & heresy finger pointing. Thanks.