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God's Devil
- Thread starter Luke2427
- Start date
All power is God's power. There is no way around that.
The power to do ANYTHING must come from God because there is no power that is not God's.
No heart beats that he doesn't empower to do so.
No one could lift a single finger without the power of God.
All the confession speaks of is "fellowship". God does not approve and is indeed antagonistic to those who break his laws.
But he gives them the physical ability to do it.
To deny this is to deny omnipotence.
Yes it does- that is exactly what it does.
Evil ensues where God removes himself- period.
The best I believe any man can do with this problem which is the problem of all problems is to state that God is not the author of evil because evil is not something he activates but something that is nothing other than the absence of God's morality.
ANY explanation will be lacking on this problem which is of such magnitude that we will doubtless never solve it throughout the endless ages of eternity.
That is exactly right. He is all of those things. AND a compatabalist who defines compatabalism nearly identical to the way I am defining it here on BB.
You are absolutely right. I totally reject his notions of Molinist "middle knowledge" and his unwillingness to accept limited atonement.
What I do fully agree with him about is compatabalism which he defines very similarly to the way I define it here.
No, I think you are getting closer and closer the less and less like a hyper you make me out to be.
Hope this clears it up.
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psalms109:31
Active Member
Devil is is own
Devil is his own. If i am a thief and have a choice of two houses to steal from and for God's plan is for you to leave alone a certain house, maybe because a certain man will try to stop a thief and dies and this prevents him from having a son who will lead many to Christ. So God will put a hedge of protection for that house. So I will steal from the other house. God doesn't change my will, but He can move me without changing my own evil desire.
Our war is not against God, but against the devil's schemes.
Ephesians 6:12
The Armor of God
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.
Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
Devil is his own. If i am a thief and have a choice of two houses to steal from and for God's plan is for you to leave alone a certain house, maybe because a certain man will try to stop a thief and dies and this prevents him from having a son who will lead many to Christ. So God will put a hedge of protection for that house. So I will steal from the other house. God doesn't change my will, but He can move me without changing my own evil desire.
Our war is not against God, but against the devil's schemes.
Ephesians 6:12
The Armor of God
10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.
18 And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests. With this in mind, be alert and always keep on praying for all the Lord’s people. 19 Pray also for me, that whenever I speak, words may be given me so that I will fearlessly make known the mystery of the gospel, 20 for which I am an ambassador in chains. Pray that I may declare it fearlessly, as I should.
Revelation 12:10
Then I heard a loud voice in heaven say: “Now have come the salvation and the power and the kingdom of our God, and the authority of his Messiah. For the accuser of our brothers and sisters, who accuses them before our God day and night, has been hurled down.
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So in other words, He is always wired in....always has skin the game. How about if The Roman Centurion, Pilate & Judas all refused to kill Christ?
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Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
So, the evil intent just "ensures" or "appears" from nothing? God removing his presence doesn't tell us where the evil intent originates, Luke. It's like saying the kids won't disobey until their parents leave. Just because their parents leave doesn't MAKE the kid disobey, it just makes the condition right so they will. Their intent to disobey must still have an origin.
1. You keep saying that God doesn't author evil, but what is the difference in authoring it and willing/causing/purposing it?
2. As stated, the absence of God's morality doesn't explain the origin of an intent, unless you believe an intent can be created by itself from nothing.
Ok, so you agree with his views on compatabilism, but not necessarily those other points? Ok, I'll read up on his stuff and see if that helps.
Like I said before, I reserve the term "hyper" for anti-evangelists, which I know you are not. I've only referred to you as a hard determinists which is what you have made yourself out to be, not me. Even other Cals here recognize that Luke.
Nevertheless, the benefit of a forum is that you can explain yourself and clarify your position, which is what you are doing. Thanks!
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
What if God chooses to give a creature his own independent power? Scripture speaks of the powers of this dark world, the rulers of darkness etc. Just because God gives his creatures the ability (power) to act, doesn't tell us what caused them to do what they do. It only serves the purpose of our discussion if you say "God empowered to do what he determined them to do," or "God empowered them to do what they freely determined themselves to do." Which one do you say?
How about God empowers all of creations to do what He either causes or permits them to do, but in ALL cases it would fit into His overall plans and purposes?
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
Your closer to joining us than you think. I feel like Luke Skywalker encouraging Darth Vader
Your closer to joining us than you think. I feel like Luke Skywalker encouraging Darth Vader
Luke Skywalker & Darth Vader......Oh ROLF, your killin me.....LOL:laugh::laugh::laugh: More like Mel Brooks "Space Balls" .... may the Swartz be with you.... LOL
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just might be the 'closest' calvinist on board to the "dark Side"...
Just have a real hard time getting "kosher" with the idea that the will of man will be able to overpower will of God, and refuse His grace/gift of life in Jesus Christ!
Nice to have you back Webdog.
Now if you want to accomplish something really big....try that with Luke, :smilewinkgrin:Glfred, Aaron or Iconoclast LOL
Now if you want to accomplish something really big....try that with Luke, :smilewinkgrin:Glfred, Aaron or Iconoclast LOL
Cause that hot dog's got pig in it. You gotta walk away from God being in control......Like going to AA meetings but having an occasional beer. That dog wont hunt.
Don't you realise the master Plan?
Start out "switching" over Cal lite on the BB, than go after the "real ones?"
Try what?
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
If I thought that "Arminians" believed man's will could "overpower the will of God," I would reject it too. Please tell me that you have asked enough questions and read enough answers from us to realize that is NOT what we believe.
You can't overpower a will that CHOOSES to allow a free choice. If I want my 8 year old daughter to sit down in a chair I certainly have the ability and strength to physically force her there, but if I freely decided that I want HER to make that decision and choose to obey my voice and she rejects or resists, does that make me less strong? Am I less of a father to her because I chose not to use physical force? Of course not. Its MY CHOICE as to how I relate to my daughter, just as it is God's choice as to how He relates to us. It is our contention that God is pleased by faith. He is pleased and seeks those who worship him by their own will. He could effectually make worshippers, no one here is denying that. He could make rocks sing his praises or just create more angels and not give the ability to rebel. But we believe and argue that God delights in people who humbly respond in faith and choose to praise Him. That is His choice and no one is overpowering that choice when they freely choose to resist his appeal to be reconciled, because allowing for a free response is HIS doing, HIS plan and HIS pleasure. Understand?
Trust me in this, I DO see where the Arminians come from, just have to say that you come from the premise that mankind was only "marred' by the fall, and that God was able to 'perserve" for man some type of "free will"
I tend to see that we went far beyond being "marred" actually were "killed" so in order for any to actually be able to place faith in Christ, the Lord hasd to do his work "in us" to have us do "our work" and trust in Christ!
Skandelon
<b>Moderator</b>
It's God's will that you do not sin...yet you do. Haven't you "overpowered" God's will in this scenario? If you would fully grasp God's permissive will in the way Scripture teaches it, you will be one step closer
Boy, don't try to tell Fredrick and Aaron that! They will ridicule you as dodging the issue, using dishonest debate tactics, and just about every other method to mock and demean you in the book.