Featured God's existence

But I do not think God is bound to His own creation. I believe God can move through time freely. What I do not see is that God would have a need to be out side of time. Since absolutely nothing exist there if there were such a place. Time is spoken of by God in several places and He lives in eternity through out all time. He does not ever in scripture exist out side of time. Time in it's self is like a Mobius Ban. It only has one side and goes on for eternity.
Did God create time? I don't know and neither do you. Only God Knows.
MB

 

Heirofsalvation,

I simply tried to explain a statement that you have obviously misunderstood and read far more into then either I, or the original author, ever intended.

I see no reason to furnish you with a more detailed response to each point you raise as most of it was provoking childish bluster and extremely dishonouring to the Lord Jesus Christ. I wonder what non-believers who saw this would think of such behaviour?

The reality is, you asked for a statement from an authority on Arminianism, I have given you one. Toplady is such an authority being wesleyan arminian for a long time before he came to understand the doctrines of grace.

You might like the statemenmt, you might agree with it - but this response is entirely uncalled for. Now should you wish to debate my soteriology with me I am more then happy to do so in the proper context and the proper place - this thread is not it.

Now it is upto you how take this post - you may want to claim the victory - so be it, I am big enough to take that. However I am not going anywhere have failed to scare me off with your rhetoric

 

Can you prove God was speaking of time in the first place Biblically. No! you can't. Because it is obvious that God was speaking of the beginning of His creation and not the beginning of time. Time has no beginning or end. It goes on for eternity. Like God. If I were to speculate as you do even I could come up with something better than that.
MB

 

MB, here is (to me anyway) an interesting "speculation" concerning God and time. Experience with relativity indicates that time "slows down" as a particle approaches the speed of light, theoretically implying that at the speed of light t=0. We are told that "God is light", thus time is "non-existent" or meaningless. What say you?

 

You are catching on HoS, they can't prove OS in the scriptures because it isn't there.

You are correct about Jeremiah 13:23, Calvinists ignore the word "accustomed" which by definition means learned behavior. This verse is not saying men are born sinners, but it is saying these men are so accustomed to sin that it has become their second nature, and it would be nearly impossible to change. It is hyperbole.

 

I admit it is speculation but IMO your premise is not "obvious" as we are talking about the first instance in which time is being mentioned (6 day creation). God is eternal and does not need the passage of time.

In my view I make a distinction between time and eternity.

Eternity has no beginning (or end) - it cannot.

Time always has a beginning and an end.

By the same token, can you prove that?

You have already speculated that time has no beginning or end which I would like to seen proven but nonetheless please do come up with something better


Thanks
HankD

 

Well HoS you are like a dog with your bone in your pursuit of an entirely needless arguement. If you do not mind creating a situation that makes you look entirely foolish then who am I to continueing to not give enough rope to hang yourself.

Now in all my years in posting on various internet forums, many of which contains numerous rabib anti-calvinists, other with highly skilled arminian apologists - never once has anyone responded to my signiture in the way uou have.

Futher more when you say things like this;

It is just meaningless, if you were sorry in any sense you would tone done the abusive rhetoric of your posts - so you are not sorry, but rather an antogonist that hides behind a thin veneer of respectability. The truth is you are not worthy of a detailed response.

An accusation of lying

I might also that that when you make statements like this;

You aught to remember the biblical command that to bring a charge against an Elder of a church requires two or three witness (1 Tim 5:19). Where are your witnesses?

Now lets look at that accusation in a little more detail shall we!

You said;

I presented a case that Toplady is an authority of Arminianism since he ehld to a wesleyan arminain perspective for much of his christain life - now you might disagree with that, and it is your right to despute if he is an authority on the subject - however your accusation rings extremely hollow in the ears of any who are actually interested in this tirade you have started.

style of responses

I might further add that you way you respond to posts has been labelled 'scattergun' in the past. By that, I am suggesting that you deliberately split down an oponents comments into individual phrases and respond to each one throughing in as many red hearings, blind alleys, strawmen and ad-hom attacks as you can possibly muster up. The point of this approach is that you either side track the debate away from the point, or you simply make it impossible for the person to respond effectively. My freind, such tactics are childish and pointless.

A challenge

Why not debate me on this forum on the doctrines of grace - your choice of focus? You can sit there with Hunt, Olson or Bryson in front of you all you want - I will go toe to toe with you.

Now onto the content of your posts.

The meaning of a statement

 

Claiming victory

Really! Then you haven't said things like;

or

I think i recall reading somewhere recently that words have meaning - now who was it that said that to me I wonder?

But as yet you have told me what I am claiming an Arminian has said. No, you have taken a comment out of my signiture line and twisted it to your own ends - neither I or Toplady are claiming anybody else has said anything in that statement - I repeat (in the hope that reptition will make it sink in) that Toplday is merely commenting on the impotence of the human will in salvation - it is a positive assertion of calvinistic doctrine, not an attack on anyone else!

by definition a bloviation is "To discourse at length in a pompous or boastful manner" - the statement is less then 35 words long so it hardly fits that criteria, nor is it pompous or baostful - however there is one person in this discusion whom words I am fairly sure match every single of those defining charecteristics - I will leave others to decide who that is for themselves.

Pointless!

Condesending!

And what purpose might they be, you enjoy making sport of other people and insluting them.

I really cannot be bothered trying to figure you out if I am truthful. I have made this last attempt to reason with you - how you deal with it is entriely your problem. However when you wish to discourse with me like a brother in Christ I will most likely still be around - the ball is in your court now.

 

R.B.
I should not have posted as I did...I was in the wrong. Please accept my apology. There are other ways I might have reasonably discussed it. My initial post was rude and un-called for and not germaine to the thread.

 

:applause::applause::applause:

 

Apology accepted, start a thread somewhere on any topic regarding my soteriology I will gladly discuss it with you.

PS - I apologize for my spellinh - my mind works more quickly then my fingers I am afraid

 

God grant us all a spirit that is not just willing to receive correction but that is equally willing to forgive.

 

I remember reading in a history book that at first men were afraid to attempt to ride a train faster than 60 MPH. They actually believed there hearts would stop. Now millions travel faster than the speed of sound with no visible effects. We are often told the speculation of scientist though more often than not there speculations are disproved eventually by themselves.

I'm not sure man will ever know there theories are true about the speed of light. If they could travel that fast man would become like a god the moment he could travel at the speed of light. There would be nothing he could not escape except for the light it's self. Even traveling at this speed men could not escape the light they would in fact have to travel faster than light to escape it. Nothing is known to travel faster. Not even light. Even though men believe that time stops at the speed of light. We still have to remember that the light has not stopped and time traveling with the light would not have stopped either except in appearance to those who might travel that fast.

God is light I agree; scripture confirms this is true. However if light somehow escaped it's self then light as we know it would cease to exist.

I really do not think that God would want to escape Him self do you?

MB

 

Genesis 1:1 says "In the beginning God created..."

It does not say "At a particular point in time God created..."

"In the beginning" is clearly a reference to time, since there can be nothing temporal before "the beginning."

Therefore, "before" Creation, there could have been no time (in the sense of physics).

John 1:1 says "In the beginning was the Word."
εν αρχη ην ο λογος

The ην there is imperfect tense for the infinitive εἰμί (which has no aorist conjugation), demonstrating that the Logos "was existing" "in the beginning." So, "when" time "began," the Word "was being."

 

You may have forgotten this refference to time before creation.
Eph 1:4 According as he hath chosen us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and without blame before him in love:

This refers to a time before creation...
MB

 

In the beginning was the Word... ties into genesis... jesus,Father, Spirit were all 3 at beginning of creation, ONLY the truine Godhead is ternal, ALL other things were created by them and for them!

To have restarined/confined in time as we are would make Him subject to his own laws and thus they would be God over him!

 

First of all, my comment was purely interesting speculation, not an axiomatic statement. Second, it is indeed a fact that the rate of time passage slows with respect to velocity. As to whether t=0, or as some have theorized, particles at the speed of light require infinite mass and infinite energy, we may never know. I don't know what you mean by "light escaping itself", don't recall attempting to imply that, if so, I apologize.