God's Gift of Faith

[atpollard]

The subject words in Ephesians 2:8 are "saved," "that," and "the gift."
. . . For by grace are ye saved . . .
. . . that not of yourselves: . . .
. . . it is the gift of God: . . .

For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

It should REALLY not be my place to be explaining this to y’all who should be better at Greek grammar than a HACK like me … but since my point seems to have been misunderstood or ignored:

In Ephesians 2:8,

• “grace” (charis) G5485 and “faith” (pistis) G4102 are both nouns conjugated in the Feminine tense.
• “saved” (sozo) G4902 is a verb conjugated in the masculine tense.
• “that” of ‘that not of yourselves’ (outos) G3778 and “gift” (doron) G1435 are conjugated in the neuter tense.
• If “that” and/or “gift” was “grace” alone or “faith” alone or “grace and faith”, then they should also be in the feminine case.
• If “that” and/or “gift” was “saved” alone, then they should also be in the masculine case.
  
• The only interpretation that agrees with the rules of Greek Grammar is for “that” and/or “gift” to be both the masculine and feminine words (thus requiring a neuter tense). The “gift” (“that”) is the whole phrase “by grace you have been saved through faith” (charis eimi sozo dia pistis).

 

[Silverhair]

It should REALLY not be my place to be explaining this to y’all who should be better at Greek grammar than a HACK like me … but since my point seems to have been misunderstood or ignored:

In Ephesians 2:8,

• “grace” (charis) G5485 and “faith” (pistis) G4102 are both nouns conjugated in the Feminine tense.
• “saved” (sozo) G4902 is a verb conjugated in the masculine tense.
• “that” of ‘that not of yourselves’ (outos) G3778 and “gift” (doron) G1435 are conjugated in the neuter tense.
• If “that” and/or “gift” was “grace” alone or “faith” alone or “grace and faith”, then they should also be in the feminine case.
• If “that” and/or “gift” was “saved” alone, then they should also be in the masculine case.
  
• The only interpretation that agrees with the rules of Greek Grammar is for “that” and/or “gift” to be both the masculine and feminine words (thus requiring a neuter tense). The “gift” (“that”) is the whole phrase “by grace you have been saved through faith” (charis eimi sozo dia pistis).

You are close but you overstepped when you include faith as the gift.
SALVATION is his main subject. Faith is mentioned because you cannot answer the question "HOW IS A PERSON SAVED?" without mentioning faith.

Paul in Eph 2:8 is just restating what he had said in Eph 1:13 and which he repeated in Rom_5:1-2.

So we see the how, by grace. The what, you have been saved. The why, through faith.
Salvation is the gift, faith is the condition for receiving the gift.

 

[SavedByGrace]

In Ephesians 2 it is SALVATION that is the Gift from the Lord

Romans 10:17
So then faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Saving Faith comes from hearing and accepting the Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ

Calvinism has also hijacked this passing in Ephesians 2 to support their fairytale theology!

 

[SavedByGrace]

It should REALLY not be my place to be explaining this to y’all who should be better at Greek grammar than a HACK like me … but since my point seems to have been misunderstood or ignored:

In Ephesians 2:8,

• “grace” (charis) G5485 and “faith” (pistis) G4102 are both nouns conjugated in the Feminine tense.
• “saved” (sozo) G4902 is a verb conjugated in the masculine tense.
• “that” of ‘that not of yourselves’ (outos) G3778 and “gift” (doron) G1435 are conjugated in the neuter tense.
• If “that” and/or “gift” was “grace” alone or “faith” alone or “grace and faith”, then they should also be in the feminine case.
• If “that” and/or “gift” was “saved” alone, then they should also be in the masculine case.
  
• The only interpretation that agrees with the rules of Greek Grammar is for “that” and/or “gift” to be both the masculine and feminine words (thus requiring a neuter tense). The “gift” (“that”) is the whole phrase “by grace you have been saved through faith” (charis eimi sozo dia pistis).

You wish!

 

[atpollard]

You wish!

I really do.
Some of you are Preachers and some are Bible School graduates. When a former atheist with an AA in Liberal Arts from a secular Community College and a Bachelor of Architecture from a state Engineering University needs to explain the need for masculine / feminine / neuter word tenses to agree in Koine Greek … something, like The best laid schemes o' mice an' men, has “Gang aft a-gley.” (Robert Burns).

 

[SavedByGrace]

I really do.
Some of you are Preachers and some are Bible School graduates. When a former atheist with an AA in Liberal Arts from a secular Community College and a Bachelor of Architecture from a state Engineering University needs to explain the need for masculine / feminine / neuter word tenses to agree in Koine Greek … something, like The best laid schemes o' mice an' men, has “Gang aft a-gley.” (Robert Burns).

From Dr A T Robertson Greek Scholar:

"Ephesians 2:8

For by grace (tēi gar chariti). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in Eph_2:5 and so with the article.
Through faith (dia pisteōs). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in Eph_2:5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours.

And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tautē, and so refers not to pistis (feminine) or to charis (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex humōn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (dōron) and not the result of our work."

Marvin Vincent, Greek Scholar

For by grace, etc.
This may truly be called exceeding riches of grace, for ye are saved by grace. Grace has the article, the grace of God, in Eph_2:5, Eph_2:7.
And that
Not faith, but the salvation.
Of God
Emphatic. Of God is it the gift.

 

[atpollard]

“Saved” is masculine. The Gift must be MORE than just Salvation or “gift” would also have been masculine. The gift is both “saved” and at least one of the two parts (or both parts) of HOW one is saved. The rules of grammar demand it.

 

[SavedByGrace]

“Saved” is masculine. The Gift must be MORE than just Salvation or “gift” would also have been masculine. The gift is both “saved” and at least one of the two parts (or both parts) of HOW one is saved. The rules of grammar demand it.

Not so!

it is salvation, which is the main thought in the passage, that is the free gift from God.

Romans 10 tells us that Faith comes from hearing the Word of God, which proves that your understanding of Ehp 2:8 is purely theological!

 

[Silverhair]

“Saved” is masculine. The Gift must be MORE than just Salvation or “gift” would also have been masculine. The gift is both “saved” and at least one of the two parts (or both parts) of HOW one is saved. The rules of grammar demand it.

What rule of grammar are you referring to. You deny what a Greek scholar says so that you can hold onto your view of the text.

["For by grace you have been saved "] {how} through faith. Salvation is a gift that we receive from God because of our faith.


When Greek wants to refer back to a general thought, perhaps a phrase, the pronoun can be in the neuter. This is "not of yourselves" does not refer specifically to [πίστεως faith G4102] but rather to the entire salvific process, of which faith obviously is a part.

In Isa_6:1-7 God reveals Himself as a holy God. Isaiah's appropriate response was to see the great chasm between himself and God and cry out, Woe is me. Isaiah is forgiven by merely receiving God's atoning gift of the burning goals. Salvation has to do with seeing God for who He is and seeing ourselves for who we are, realizing that there is nothing we can do to move from being a sinner to being holy, and yet also believing that the holy God has done what only He can do in reaching out and offering forgiveness to us. Faith is believing that God has extended the fires of forgiveness.
Isaiah clearly saw that the entire process was a gracious gift received by the faith that believes God has bridged the gap and has forgiven our sins.

Comments from Antecedents and Faith (Eph 2:8-9)

 

[SavedByGrace]

There is nothing in the passage in Ephesians 2 that supports the absurd teaching of the reformed, that God only "grants" saving faith to the elect, so that they alone can believe and be saved! SALVATION is the free Gift from God, and NOT faith in this passage!

This is destroyed by the FACT that God is calling ALL humans to repent of their sins, which means that God has made it possible for ALL humans to have the ability to repent, or else the whole Gospel is nothing more than a farce!

Reformed theology likes to force their human theology into what the Bible does NOT say, as they do in John 3:16-18, where they try to show that God's saving love is only for the elect! This is NOT what the passage says, as is even rightly admitted to by Calvin himself, and other honest reformed theologians like Robert Dabney

 

[Silverhair]

There is nothing in the passage in Ephesians 2 that supports the absurd teaching of the reformed, that God only "grants" saving faith to the elect, so that they alone can believe and be saved! SALVATION is the free Gift from God, and NOT faith in this passage!

This is destroyed by the FACT that God is calling ALL humans to repent of their sins, which means that God has made it possible for ALL humans to have the ability to repent, or else the whole Gospel is nothing more than a farce!

Reformed theology likes to force their human theology into what the Bible does NOT say, as they do in John 3:16-18, where they try to show that God's saving love is only for the elect! This is NOT what the passage says, as is even rightly admitted to by Calvin himself, and other honest reformed theologians like Robert Dabney

Calvinist Greek scholar Bill Mounce is clear, Eph 2:8 answers the question of "How is one saved"? It is the gift that we receive from God because of our faith.

Why so many of the reformed/calvinist camp can not or more correctly stated will not accept this truth is puzzling to say the least.

 

[KenH]

In the gospel of man, man ultimately attributes the cause of salvation to something that man does in some way, shape, or form. Once anyone introduces some action on his own part as the cause of his own salvation, even to the least degree, then he has set himself up as being ultimately his own "savior", his own "god", as he has based the success of the whole salvation process on himself. Once even the least degree of action by man is introduced as being salvific, then one is teaching salvation by works and not salvation by grace.

The gospel of Christ is based 100% on Christ and 0% on man. As Jonah said(Jonah 2:9), "Salvation is of the LORD." Jonah did not say that "Salvation is of the LORD - if you will cooperate with Him, or if you will let Him."

In the true gospel proclaimed in the Bible, God is the Actor and man is the one acted upon, and not the other way around, regardless of how vehemently those who teach the gospel of man proclaim that they are the decider about their salvation and not God.

 

[SavedByGrace]

In the gospel of man, man ultimately attributes the cause of salvation to something that man does in some way, shape, or form. Once anyone introduces some action on his own part as the cause of his own salvation, even to the least degree, then he has set himself up as being ultimately his own "savior", his own "god", as he has based the success of the whole salvation process on himself. Once even the least degree of action by man is introduced as being salvific, then one is teaching salvation by works and not salvation by grace.

The gospel of Christ is based 100% on Christ and 0% on man. As Jonah said(Jonah 2:9), "Salvation is of the LORD." Jonah did not say that "Salvation is of the LORD - if you will cooperate with Him, or if you will let Him."

In the true gospel proclaimed in the Bible, God is the Actor and man is the one acted upon, and not the other way around, regardless of how vehemently those who teach the gospel of man proclaim that they are the decider about their salvation and not God.

The Gospel is put plainly by Jesus Himself for all sinners,

“The time promised by God has come at last!” he announced. “The Kingdom of God is near! Repent of your sins and believe the Good News!” Mark 1:15 (NLT)

without every sinner first REPENTING of their sins, and BELIEVING in The Gospel of the Lord Jesus Christ, there can be no salvation!

nothing complicated at all!

 

[KenH]

To further expound: The issue is not whether all of God’s elect - those He chose before the world began - will exercise faith and repentance from dead works. The issue is whether this is based on God or on man.

The gospel of Christ teaches the inability of man:

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

The gospel of man teaches the ability of man – that man really didn’t “fall” in the Garden of Eden; no, they teach that man merely stumped his big toe or maybe bruised his pinky finger. They proclaim that man has the ability, in and of himself - and regardless of what happened in the Garden of Eden - to “save” himself. They think they, in and of themselves, can be “smart” enough or “wise” enough to believe and to repent from dead works, especially compared to those who are not “smart” enough or “wise” enough to do so. They teach that what really makes the difference in being saved is THEMSELVES and not God. They think that have some kind of co-sovereignty with God over their lives, which they think ultimately makes them the Captain Of Their Own Fate, their own de facto “god”.

Those who proclaim the gospel of man have fallen into the same snare as Eve did in the Garden of Eden. What did the serpent deceive Eve into believing? What was the word? “Ye shall be as gods.” (Genesis 3:5) There it is – “gods”!

 

[SavedByGrace]

To further expound: The issue is not whether all of God’s elect - those He chose before the world began - will exercise faith and repentance from dead works. The issue is whether this is based on God or on man.

The gospel of Christ teaches the inability of man:

Psalms 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power.

John 6:44 No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

John 6:65 And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

The gospel of man teaches the ability of man – that man really didn’t “fall” in the Garden of Eden; no, they teach that man merely stumped his big toe or maybe bruised his pinky finger. They proclaim that man has the ability, in and of himself - and regardless of what happened in the Garden of Eden - to “save” himself. They think they, in and of themselves, can be “smart” enough or “wise” enough to believe and to repent from dead works, especially compared to those who are not “smart” enough or “wise” enough to do so. They teach that what really makes the difference in being saved is THEMSELVES and not God. They think that have some kind of co-sovereignty with God over their lives, which they think ultimately makes them the Captain Of Their Own Fate, their own de facto “god”.

Those who proclaim the gospel of man have fallen into the same snare as Eve did in the Garden of Eden. What did the serpent deceive Eve into believing? What was the word? “Ye shall be as gods.” (Genesis 3:5) There it is – “gods”!

Exactly what unbiblical nonsense are you on about?

 

[KenH]

Psalms 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power.

Who's power? GOD'S POWER!!!

 

[SavedByGrace]

Psalms 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power.

Who's power? GOD'S POWER!!!

I can read that! what is your point with this verse and the OP?

 

[KenH]

I can read that! what is your point with this verse and the OP?

Go back to the beginning of this thread and read what I have posted by Kenny Dyess and what I have written myself. To answer some broad catch-all question would be to repost what I have already posted and written.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Go back to the beginning of this thread and read what I have posted by Kenny Dyess and what I have written myself. To answer some broad catch-all question would be to repost what I have already posted and written.

I have seen all of that.

It is quite impossible to understand that in any way God does give saving faith only to a select few, thereby enabling them to get saved. This would make their salvation mechanical, and contrary to the Bible's demands that all sinner must first REPENT and BELIEVE, before they are saved. This means that ALL sinners have the God-given ability to do so, as it is in their dna!

A very interesting passage on this is John chapter 5, where Jesus is speaking with the Jews who wanted to murder Him, for working on the Sabbath Day, and claiming to be Almighty God. To these verse murdering Jews, Jesus says;

39 “You search the Scriptures because you think they give you eternal life. But the Scriptures point to me! 40 Yet you refuse to come to me to receive this life.

Notice the words of Jesus here. He tells these Jews that they are continually searching (present tense in Greek) the Scriptures, in the hope of gaining eternal life. Jesus says to them, He IS The Eternal Life they are searching for, and it is they who are UNWILLING to go to Him for this eternal life.

We see here that Jesus is very clear, that these Jews who wanted to murder Him, had the ABILITY to either go to Him for eternal life; or to refuse, they CHOSE the latter! Further, for Jesus to tell them that they could also have eternal life in Him, is very clear that Jesus would have also "tasted Death" for them, or His words are really pointless!

This passage is a great place to expose the humanistic teachings of the "reformed" in the mostly unbiblical TULIP!

 

[atpollard]

What rule of grammar are you referring to. You deny what a Greek scholar says so that you can hold onto your view of the text.

From Dr A T Robertson Greek Scholar:

"Ephesians 2:8

And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tautē, and so refers not to pistis (feminine) or to charis (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex humōn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (dōron) and not the result of our work."

I disagree that we are the source of that faith … I believe that view runs contrary to the God-centric tone of the first two chapters of Ephesians leading up to it … but Ephesians 2:8 seems silent on that nuance. However, YOUR expert stated the same thing I stated about the need for masculine / feminine tense to agree. His conclusion was the neuter referred to the whole thing. My conclusion was the neuter referred to the whole thing.

Go consult with an expert in Greek. As I stated, I am just a hack, but even a hack knows that much about Greek grammar. The genders match.