God's Gift of Faith

[SavedByGrace]

I disagree that we are the source of that faith … I believe that view runs contrary to the God-centric tone of the first two chapters of Ephesians leading up to it … but Ephesians 2:8 seems silent on that nuance. However, YOUR expert stated the same thing I stated about the need for masculine / feminine tense to agree. His conclusion was the neuter referred to the whole thing. My conclusion was the neuter referred to the whole thing.

Go consult with an expert in Greek. As I stated, I am just a hack, but even a hack knows that much about Greek grammar. The genders match.

you are not correct in "matching genders" in the Greek. It does not always work that way

In John 6:37, Jesus is speaking about those the Father has given Him

"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will by no means cast out"

In the Greek Jesus says, "Πᾶν ὃ", which is in the neuter gender, even though He is referring to persons and not things!

Similarly, in 1 John 1:1, John is speaking about Jesus Christ

That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have looked upon, and our hands have handled, concerning the Word of life

here also we have the use of the neuter "Ὃ", four times for the Person Jesus Christ!

For those who reject the words as in the KJV of 1 John 5:7, we have the three neuter nouns, "τὸ πνεῦμα καὶ τὸ ὕδωρ καὶ τὸ αἷμα" in verse 8, described in verse 7 as "ὅτι τρεῖς εἰσιν οἱ μαρτυροῦντες", which is in the masculine!

 

[Silverhair]

I disagree that we are the source of that faith … I believe that view runs contrary to the God-centric tone of the first two chapters of Ephesians leading up to it … but Ephesians 2:8 seems silent on that nuance. However, YOUR expert stated the same thing I stated about the need for masculine / feminine tense to agree. His conclusion was the neuter referred to the whole thing. My conclusion was the neuter referred to the whole thing.

Go consult with an expert in Greek. As I stated, I am just a hack, but even a hack knows that much about Greek grammar. The genders match.

So you do not trust what two Greek scholars, Robertson & Mounce, tell you because they do not agree with you view. You did say you are a hack, correct. So if you admit you do not know Greek than why do you not trust those that do?

A. T. Robertson
For by grace (tēi gar chariti). Explanatory reason. “By the grace” already mentioned in Eph_2:5 and so with the article.
Through faith (dia pisteōs). This phrase he adds in repeating what he said in Eph_2:5 to make it plainer. “Grace” is God’s part, “faith” ours.
And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tautē, and so refers not to pistis (feminine) or to charis (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex humōn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (dōron) and not the result of our work.

Bill Mounce
The answer is to know a little Greek! When Greek wants to refer back to a general thought, perhaps a phrase, the pronoun can be in the neuter. This is "not of yourselves" does not refer specifically to [πίστεως faith G4102] but rather to the entire salvific process, of which faith obviously is a part.


["For by grace you have been saved "] {how} through faith. Salvation is a gift that we receive from God because of our faith.

But you continue to avoid the obvious, man has to believe. Or do you think God believes for them?

I find it amazing how hard the calvinist/reformed will squirm to avoid the obvious intent of scripture.

 

[KenH]

It is quite impossible to understand that in any way God does give saving faith only to a select few

The two alternatives would be that God:

1) Gives saving faith and repentance from dead works to no one; in which case, no one will be saved.

2) Gives saving faith and repentance from dead works to everyone; in which case, everyone will be saved.

I would really doubt that you, or anyone, wants to defend #1.

If you disagree with #2, then you are left with the same problem with the gospel of man that I pointed out previously in post #34:

It means that man is some kind of co-sovereign with God over his life, and makes man the Captain Of His Own Faith, his own de facto "god", the same snare that Eve fell into in the Garden of Eden. It means that man is claiming glory for himself in salvation by being "smart" enough or "wise" enough to believe and repent from dead works compared to those who are not "smart" or "wise" enough to do so.

 

[Silverhair]

The two alternatives would be that God:

1) Gives saving faith and repentance from dead works to no one; in which case, no one will be saved.

2) Gives saving faith and repentance from dead works to everyone; in which case, everyone will be saved.

I would really doubt that you, or anyone, wants to defend #1.

If you disagree with #2, then you are left with the same problem with the gospel of man that I pointed out previously in post #34:

It means that man is some kind of co-sovereign with God over his life, and makes man the Captain Of His Own Faith, his own de facto "god", the same snare that Eve fell into in the Garden of Eden. It means that man is claiming glory for himself in salvation by being "smart" enough or "wise" enough to believe and repent from dead works compared to those who are not "smart" or "wise" enough to do so.

You failed to provide the biblical option.

God gives all mankind the ability to repent and trust in Him so as to be saved.

We are told the gospel message is the power of God to salvation for all who believe.

Plus we are told that those that hear the gospel and believe will be saved.

Notice it is those that believe not those that were chosen to believe.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The two alternatives would be that God:

1) Gives saving faith and repentance from dead works to no one; in which case, no one will be saved.

2) Gives saving faith and repentance from dead works to everyone; in which case, everyone will be saved.

I would really doubt that you, or anyone, wants to defend #1.

If you disagree with #2, then you are left with the same problem with the gospel of man that I pointed out previously in post #34:

It means that man is some kind of co-sovereign with God over his life, and makes man the Captain Of His Own Faith, his own de facto "god", the same snare that Eve fell into in the Garden of Eden. It means that man is claiming glory for himself in salvation by being "smart" enough or "wise" enough to believe and repent from dead works compared to those who are not "smart" or "wise" enough to do so.

neither are correct according to the Bible!

God has given to all humans the ability to either accept, or reject the Gospel, as I have clearly shown from the passage in John 5. We all have FREE WILL, which is God-given, so not our of ourselves.

If, as you suggest, that God only desires that the elect is saved, then how can He Justly Command that every single human being were to repent and believe, so that they can be saved? How can the Gospel Message be preached to the entire human race, when it is impossible for those who have not been enabled by God to believe, to believe? Why would God say to seek Him, so that we might find Him, for the purpose of salvation? Why does God say to choose whether sinners are to follow Him, or the "gods" of this world, if they really cannot?

The Parable of the Wedding Feast as told by Jesus Himself, is very clear that the Gospel is to be given to the entire human race, and it is up to them to either accept or reject the Invitation of salvation.

Salvation starts with the Lord, as it is He Who has made it possible for us sinners to come to Him. But God cannot and will not force His salvation on any person, which is also very clear from many passages in the Bible.

 

[KenH]

Do those whom God chose before the world began and gave to His Son to be their Surety - to pay for their sins imputed to Him, and to have His perfect righteousness imputed to them, who met ALL of the conditions for their salvation - believe and repent of dead works?

Yes!

But they do not do so based on their own spiritual ability(of which they have none because of Adam's fall), and certainly not because they are "smart" enough or wise "enough", especially compared to the reprobates, to do so.

They do so because of the power of God and the power of God alone. Salvation is 100% of God and 0% of man.

Psalms 110:3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, In the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: Thou hast the dew of thy youth.

Ezekiel 16:6 And when I passed by thee, and saw thee polluted in thine own blood, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live; yea, I said unto thee when thou wast in thy blood, Live.

Ezekiel 36:26 A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you: and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh, and I will give you an heart of flesh.

John 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.

John 6:65 Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father.

Acts of the Apostles 11:18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.

Acts of the Apostles 16:14 And a certain woman named Lydia, a seller of purple, of the city of Thyatira, which worshipped God, heard us: whose heart the Lord opened, that she attended unto the things which were spoken of Paul.

Philippians 1:29 For unto you it is given in the behalf of Christ, not only to believe on him, but also to suffer for his sake.

I advise everyone reading this to flee from those who teach that salvation is based on man meeting this or that or the other condition(s), and that do not the teach the Biblical truth that Christ met ALL of the conditions for His people and that faith and repentance of dead works are gifts from God. Such teachers seek not only glory in their own flesh, but to have you follow after them so that they can seek to glory in your flesh, as well.

ALL of the glory salvation belongs to God and NONE to man.

 

[atpollard]

So you do not trust what two Greek scholars, Robertson & Mounce, tell you because they do not agree with you view. You did say you are a hack, correct. So if you admit you do not know Greek than why do you not trust those that do?

You need to reread what I wrote and what Robertson wrote.
You are misrepresenting what I said.
I am, therefore, through with this unprofitable conversation. You are not listening, you are only waiting to speak.

 

[KenH]

Salvation starts with the Lord

Salvation not only starts with God, it finishes with God as well. To say that God only starts salvation is to teach a false gospel and to worship a false god of one's own imagination.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.

(emphasis mine)

 

[SavedByGrace]

Salvation not only starts with God, it finishes with God as well. To say that God only starts salvation is to teach a false gospel and to worship a false god of one's own imagination.

Hebrews 12:2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith.

(emphasis mine)

I most certainly believe that from a to z salvation is of the Lord!

we are not discussing this here. the OP title is about God's gift of faith only for the elect, I have shown that this is not what the Bible teaches.

 

[Silverhair]

You need to reread what I wrote and what Robertson wrote.
You are misrepresenting what I said.
I am, therefore, through with this unprofitable conversation. You are not listening, you are only waiting to speak.

You need to reread what I wrote and what Robertson and Mounce wrote. You are not listening, you are only waiting to speak.

And that (kai touto). Neuter, not feminine tautē, and so refers not to pistis (feminine) or to charis (feminine also), but to the act of being saved by grace conditioned on faith on our part. Paul shows that salvation does not have its source (ex humōn, out of you) in men, but from God. Besides, it is God’s gift (dōron) and not the result of our work.

What about the Robertson comment did I get wrong?

When Greek wants to refer back to a general thought, perhaps a phrase, the pronoun can be in the neuter. This is "not of yourselves" does not refer specifically to [πίστεως faith G4102] but rather to the entire salvific process, of which faith obviously is a part.

What about the Mounce comment did I get wrong?

["For by grace you have been saved "] {how} through faith. Salvation is a gift that we receive from God because of our faith.

Do you not agree with this, if not why not?

 

[KenH]

The only way that man can be saved is if Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for man's salvation. If salvation was to be based on man fulfilling ANY condition, then no man could or would be saved. Period.

I know that in the flesh we all railed against not being the Captain Of Our Own Fate; thus, it is God who must give His elect, those He chose before the world began, spiritual life, which brings with it the gifts of faith and of repentance from dead works so that the redeemed, born again soul can now exercise those two spiritual gifts.

 

[SavedByGrace]

The only way that man can be saved is if Christ fulfilled ALL of the conditions for man's salvation. If salvation was to be based on man fulfilling ANY condition, then no man could or would be saved. Period.

I know that in the flesh we all railed against not being the Captain Of Our Own Fate; thus, it is God who must give His elect, those He chose before the world began, spiritual life, which brings with it the gifts of faith and of repentance from dead works so that the redeemed, born again soul can now exercise those two spiritual gifts.

So God believes for the sinner and God has faith for the sinner!

Complete nonsense

 

[KenH]

So God believes for the sinner and God has faith for the sinner!

Complete nonsense

I did not write that. I wrote, "so that the redeemed, born again soul can now exercise those two spiritual gifts."

 

[kyredneck]

Those who proclaim the gospel of man have fallen into the same snare as Eve did in the Garden of Eden. What did the serpent deceive Eve into believing? What was the word? “Ye shall be as gods.” (Genesis 3:5) There it is – “gods”!

EXACTLY. as the Old Baptists put it.

 

[SavedByGrace]

I did not write that. I wrote, "so that the redeemed, born again soul can now exercise those two spiritual gifts."

Do you believe that God gives saving faith and the ability to believe only to the elect

 

[Silverhair]

EXACTLY. as the Old Baptists put it.

You need to qualify your answer KY. It was as the Old Calvinist Baptists put it. Not all baptists have fallen for the foolishness that Augustine and Calvin foisted on the bible.

 

[kyredneck]

You need to qualify your answer KY. It was as the Old Calvinist Baptists put it. Not all baptists have fallen for the foolishness that Augustine and Calvin foisted on the bible.

You're a chip off the old block. Pelagious hated(?) Augustine also.

 

[KenH]

Do you believe that God gives saving faith and the ability to believe only to the elect

Yes, God not only makes His elect willing in the day of His power to believe and to repent of dead works, His elect actually exercise faith and repent of dead works.

Even if I didn't believe the Bible, it would still be true. God said it, that settles it.

 

[Silverhair]

You're a chip off the old block. Pelagious hated(?) Augustine also.

You really do not have much to contribute do you.

Do your self a good service and actually look at some history. Your particular view of theology is built on pagan philosophy.

Plus why would I want to follow the teaching of a Roman Catholic bishop {Augustine} or an RC {Calvin} when I have the Holy Spirit inspired word of God.

 

[SavedByGrace]

Yes, God not only makes His elect willing in the day of His power to believe and to repent of dead works, His elect actually exercise faith and repent of dead works.

Even if I didn't believe the Bible, it would still be true. God said it, that settles it.

Then what I said in #52 is correct