Featured God's love 2

:thumbsup::laugh::laugh::thumbsup:

 

Here we have the change the subject ploy, as if anyone had said Christ's death, figuratively the shedding of His blood, was unnecessary. Thus a non-germane argument.

Next, we get the assertion we are predestined to believe on Him. But does Ephesians 2:10 support that assertion? Nope.

Then we get yet another assertion, applying the work God does within a born anew believer, to the lost.

Next we get the claim that all men that seek the Lord, do so with all their heart, but Matthew 13 refutes that claim.

Basically I provided from 1 John 2 evidence that Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, which refers to the lost, both Jews and Gentiles. No rebuttal was offered, just more mistaken assertions.

 

John uses the word translated "world" to refer to fallen mankind or the corrupt value system of fallen mankind, both at John 3:16 and 1 John 2:2.

Next a Calvinist denies 1 Timothy 2:6 which teaches Christ gave Himself as a ransom for all.

They claim for Christ to be the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, then the whole world must be propitiated. Not valid. Only those that "receive" the reconciliation are propitiated.

Next, it was claimed we as born anew believers should not love the people of the world, i.e. the lost. But Christ laid down His life as a ransom for all. Are we to love our neighbor as our-self? How can we emulate the "Good Samaritan" if we do not love mankind as Christ did.

God loved fallen mankind in this way, He gave His one of a kind Son so that anyone who believes into Christ shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

Wrong again, Mr. Van.

Ephesians 2:4-10 says that :"because of his great love for us, God, who is rich in mercy, made us alive with Christ even when we were dead in transgressions --it is by grace you have been saved. And God raised us up with Christ and seated us with him in the heavenly realms in Christ Jesus, in order that in the coming ages he might show the inconcomparable riches of his grace, expressed in his kindness to us in Christ Jesus. For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith --and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God --not by works, so that no one can boast. For we are God's haniwork, created in Christ Jesus to do good works, which God prepared in advance for us to do." (NIV)

Did you catch all the personal pronouns? This work in our hearts is from God. He had a great love for us and made us alive with Christ. It is by grace that we (his elect ones) are saved. We have no merit in ourselves. It is soly through the distinguishing grace of our Lord. This grace and love was manifested in his predestination of us before the foundation of the world (Eph. 1:4;2 Tim.1:9)

Propitiation does not = means of salvation as you have wrongly asserted time and agin.

The propitiatory sacrifice of Christ extended world-wide to all the scatted children of God. It certainly does not refer to every single individual who has and shall exist.

The propitiation is real --not hypothetical. Christ is the propitiation for all of his elect children internationally throughout all the ages of the earth.

 

an answer

Excellent questions, Judith.:flower:

 

Posted by Van {Next we get the claim that all men that seek the Lord, do so with all their heart, but Matthew 13 refutes that claim.} Read it again. The all men I was referring to was, all of the elect. Also I was talking about real seekers that seek God with all of their heart.

 

Yet more posts addressing non issues. When God elects an individual for salvation through faith in the truth, He sets that individual spiritually apart in Christ. Thus they placed their faith in Christ before election for salvation, 2 Thessalonians 2:13.

Then we get the repeated fiction that Ephesians 2:10 supports the "predestined to believe" Calvinist doctrine. What it actually teaches is that God prepared beforehand the "good works" so that we, born anew believers, would walk in them.

Folks, verse after verse is cited, and claimed to say what they do not say.

They deny that Christ became the propitiation or means of salvation for the whole world, but 1 John 2:2 refutes their view.

1 John Chapter 2 makes clear that Christ became the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only as born anew believers who are both Jews and Gentiles, but also for the whole world of fallen mankind, made up of Jews and Gentiles. See verses 12 and 16.

Did anyone say propitiation is not real for those who receive the reconciliation? Nope. Again and again misrepresentations are posted to avoid the rather obvious truths of scripture.

God loved fallen mankind in this way, He gave His one of a kind Son so that anyone who believes into Christ shall not perish but have eternal life.

 

You believe in order to make the blood effectual, fallen man has to believe, or in other words when Christ said it was finished upon the cross it was not really finished until man say's it's finished by believing. :tonofbricks:

 

Judith,

I have often been "uncomfortable" with the way the term "elect" is often bantered about, most likely because I am decidedly "not calvinistic" in my theology. Came across this article which I found interesting and informative.

http://www.douglashamp.com/why-god-...vation-and-commonly-is-a-reference-to-israel/

 

:thumbs:

Referring to the lost as "non-elect" is one of the biggest hurdles to being a five-pointer I know of. I never want to be that arrogant.

 

There are the lost and there are the 'up your nose with a rubber hose ' lost. :laugh:

You do understand the difference I'm sure.

 

:laugh::laugh::laugh:

 

Your honesty is appreciated.

 

No one on this board believes that. I certainly don't believe because a man is lost at the moment he is non-elect.

 

I see "non-elect" used here, all the time.

 

http://www.baptistboard.com/search.php?searchid=2667020

 

All I got from this is a bunch of thread topics. Can you find a statement from a 5 pointer to back up your first statement ?

 

In the first thread, the unsaved are referred to as "non-elect" in post #19.

The second thread, post # 10.

and so on…..

 

Eze 18:23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?


Mat 23:37 O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not!