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God's love, is it equal for everyone???
- Thread starter Greektim
- Start date
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Wow... this is exegesis??? You know the noun "elect" and the verb "choose" comes from the same cognate. It is just that one is the noun form and the other the verb form of the same root. So the way you are interpreting Eph. 1:4 could just as easily be turned to say "elected". Your reasoning is completely faulty.
And God uses "elect" for angels (1 Tim. 5:21). And 2 Tim 2:10 is not specific to ethnicity. Likely it is referring to both Jew and Gentile. So again, more faulty reasoning.
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Verse 8:33 is about the elect. before Salvation you were not elect, after Salvation you were chosen. If you think you were elect then please show scripture that shows the possible election of Gentiles. You won't find any because Gentiles are chosen not elect.
elect;
G1588
ἐκλεκτός
eklektos
ek-lek-tos'
From G1586; select; by implication favorite: - chosen, elect.
G1586
ἐκλέγομαι
eklegomai
ek-leg'-om-ahee
Middle voice from G1537 and G3004 (in its primary sense); to select: - make choice, choose (out), chosen.
Do you see a difference? I do
MB
Greektim
Well-Known Member
Do you even know Greek? Yes the words are different. One is the noun form and the other the verbal form. But they have the same root. They are morphological cognates. They mean the same thing but have different grammatical functions in a sentence. In other words, they both mean "elect" or "choose/chosen".
And I noticed you sidestepped the error I pointed out when you overstated your case that "elect" is ever only applied to Israel when that is clearly not the case.
I hope you can do better than this.
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CERTAINLY.
Without question.
Just like he commands us to love all men but ESPECIALLY those of the household of faith.
I know of not one verse in all of the entire BIBLE that says God loves every person EQUALLY.
I think this is a human standard we think is ideal for humanity that we think God ought to conform to as well.
But God does not conform to human standards of fairness or equality.
It seems that God is basically totally uninterested in such things as he reveals himself in the Bible. TOTALLY uniterested in what we think is fair. I'm not sure if there is ANYTHING the Bible reveal he is any LESS interested in than our standards of fairness.
He picks whole nations to bless and curse.
He loves Jacob and hates Esau.
He does not CARE that Cain thinks that He ought to treat he and his brother equally. God simply does not care WHAT Cain thinks God ought to do.
And I don't think he cares what WE think he ought to do either. He just does what he wants and it is right just simply because he is the One doing it.
God bless!:wavey:
Gods love is In Christ and the ministry of the Holy Spirit given unto us.The unsaved are not indwelt by the Holy Spirit.
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
To be apart from Christ is to be apart from His love,
5 And hope maketh not ashamed; because the love of God is shed abroad in our hearts by the Holy Ghost which is given unto us.
39 Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.
To be apart from Christ is to be apart from His love,
Man created in the image of God was the means by which the God was going to do battle with and destroy Satan who was on the earth (the world) and the reason for the earth being as it was in Gen. 1:2. The God was going to do this by begetting a Son, a man child, with the woman, taken from the man created in the image of the God.
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen. 1:1
Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep.
The Lamb, the only begotten Son of God, the man child was slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 13:8 The blood of this Lamb the Son of God, the Lamb without blemish or spot, sinless was foreordained to be shed before the foundation of the world. 1 Peter 1:19,20 Before Adam the figure of him, Christ, to come was created.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen. 1:2,3
To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, Acts 26:18
God loves the world he created in Genesis 1:1 and in the manner of his choice God will save the world. He will do that by election, his God's election, All will not be elected at the same time. Have faith in God. Mark 11:22 (Barnes: Literally, "Have the faith of God. The feasts of God show not all are not elected at the same time. Election is presently of the first fruit. There will be other fruit.
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him: Eph 1:9,10
What do each of you believe to be all things? Rocks and gnats? If yes to rocks and gnats, what about people, sheep who have gone astray?
In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Gen. 1:1
Gen. 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness [was] upon the face of the deep.
The Lamb, the only begotten Son of God, the man child was slain from the foundation of the world. Rev 13:8 The blood of this Lamb the Son of God, the Lamb without blemish or spot, sinless was foreordained to be shed before the foundation of the world. 1 Peter 1:19,20 Before Adam the figure of him, Christ, to come was created.
And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. Gen. 1:2,3
To open their eyes, [and] to turn [them] from darkness to light, and [from] the power of Satan unto God, Acts 26:18
God loves the world he created in Genesis 1:1 and in the manner of his choice God will save the world. He will do that by election, his God's election, All will not be elected at the same time. Have faith in God. Mark 11:22 (Barnes: Literally, "Have the faith of God. The feasts of God show not all are not elected at the same time. Election is presently of the first fruit. There will be other fruit.
Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; [even] in him: Eph 1:9,10
What do each of you believe to be all things? Rocks and gnats? If yes to rocks and gnats, what about people, sheep who have gone astray?
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One more thing.
The faith of us will do nothing for us.
It is through the faith of God, the faith of Christ that the righteousness of God is imputed to you. The Spirit was received, was enabled to be given by hearing. Hearing the word of God say Christ died for you, the faith, his Father raising Christ from the dead, grace of life, Christ ascending to the right hand of the Father, and receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father to be shed (poured out) on you.
Your faith, what comes from your mind without the Holy Spirit, just like your righteousness is as filthy rags IMHO. The just shall live by his faith.
His meaning God's. His blood, the blood of the Son of God justified, made you righteous, in the eyes of the Father and you shall live by his life, resurrected life.
The faith of us will do nothing for us.
It is through the faith of God, the faith of Christ that the righteousness of God is imputed to you. The Spirit was received, was enabled to be given by hearing. Hearing the word of God say Christ died for you, the faith, his Father raising Christ from the dead, grace of life, Christ ascending to the right hand of the Father, and receiving the promise of the Holy Spirit from the Father to be shed (poured out) on you.
Your faith, what comes from your mind without the Holy Spirit, just like your righteousness is as filthy rags IMHO. The just shall live by his faith.
His meaning God's. His blood, the blood of the Son of God justified, made you righteous, in the eyes of the Father and you shall live by his life, resurrected life.
One means to choose because of an implied Favorite the other is just plain choose. This is the difference I've been talking about. Seems some are just so educated they can't see or understand a thing.
I didn't side step. I'm unable to dance around on a issue as well as you.
Your out in left field some where. One is chosen with favoritism and the other isn't. God chose Jacob because He loved Jacob and hated Esau. The other does not mean it was because of favoritism. This is why the different words.
It's true I'm not a Greek scholar like you claim to be but I can read and understand what I read. I expected at least some honesty from a you. Perhaps you not able to be honest because you are predestined to be the way you are..
MB
I have a question. I know no Greek.
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to purpose.
Abraham was called out of Ur of the Chaldees. Saul on the road to Damascus was called.
Called. Heb. 11:8
Scripture4all.org Greek interlinear: to belief (faith) being called Abraham obeys to be outcoming
Westcott & Hort Interlinear: Unto a trust being called unto an Abraham it heard under to have had came out into
Are not the called, elected, and or chosen to be of faith, to be believers?
Did not the very same thing happen to Saul? Is this not the very same thing Jesus says in John 10:26.27 the elect, called, hearing, obeying being believers?
Does God call us unto belief (faith) or is faith generated from somewhere within us?
quantumfaith
Active Member
Perchco, the following is to me an excellent treatment of election. I know, we being different on the matter, will have much to "quibble" over, but I think you will at least find it an interesting read.
http://www.ccuniversity.edu/seminary/files/2008/06/PHARAOH-A-PARADIGM-FOR-ISRAEL-ROM-9.pdf
psalms109:31
Active Member
Leviticus 19:
33“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them.34The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
Ezekiel 47:22
You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.
Exodus 12:48
“A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it.
Deuteronomy 10:18
He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing.
Malachi 3:5
“So I will come to put you on trial. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive the foreigners among you of justice, but do not fear me,” says the Lord Almighty.
Jeremiah 31:3
3 The Lord appeared to us in the past,[Or Lord has appeared to us from afar] saying:
“I have loved you with an everlasting love;
I have drawn you with unfailing kindness.
Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
Romans 11:
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
All Israel Will Be Saved
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[Or and so] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[Or will be] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[Isaiah 59:20,21; 27:9 (see Septuagint); Jer. 31:33,34]
Saul really thought he was doing the will of God, a message of hope for heathens?
1 Thessalonians 2:
13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe. 14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[Or them fully]
33“‘When a foreigner resides among you in your land, do not mistreat them.34The foreigner residing among you must be treated as your native-born. Love them as yourself, for you were foreigners in Egypt. I am the Lord your God.
Ezekiel 47:22
You are to allot it as an inheritance for yourselves and for the foreigners residing among you and who have children. You are to consider them as native-born Israelites; along with you they are to be allotted an inheritance among the tribes of Israel.
Exodus 12:48
“A foreigner residing among you who wants to celebrate the Lord’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat it.
Deuteronomy 10:18
He defends the cause of the fatherless and the widow, and loves the foreigner residing among you, giving them food and clothing.
Malachi 3:5
“So I will come to put you on trial. I will be quick to testify against sorcerers, adulterers and perjurers, against those who defraud laborers of their wages, who oppress the widows and the fatherless, and deprive the foreigners among you of justice, but do not fear me,” says the Lord Almighty.
Jeremiah 31:3
3 The Lord appeared to us in the past,[Or Lord has appeared to us from afar] saying:
“I have loved you with an everlasting love;
I have drawn you with unfailing kindness.
Ephesians 1:13
And you also were included in Christ when you heard the message of truth, the gospel of your salvation. When you believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
Romans 11:
13 I am talking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the Gentiles, I take pride in my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection brought reconciliation to the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as firstfruits is holy, then the whole batch is holy; if the root is holy, so are the branches.
17 If some of the branches have been broken off, and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive root, 18 do not consider yourself to be superior to those other branches. If you do, consider this: You do not support the root, but the root supports you. 19 You will say then, “Branches were broken off so that I could be grafted in.” 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by faith. Do not be arrogant, but tremble. 21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either.
22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of God: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in his kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for God is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the natural branches, be grafted into their own olive tree!
All Israel Will Be Saved
25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers and sisters, so that you may not be conceited: Israel has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the Gentiles has come in, 26 and in this way[Or and so] all Israel will be saved. As it is written:
“The deliverer will come from Zion;
he will turn godlessness away from Jacob.
27 And this is[Or will be] my covenant with them
when I take away their sins.”[Isaiah 59:20,21; 27:9 (see Septuagint); Jer. 31:33,34]
Saul really thought he was doing the will of God, a message of hope for heathens?
1 Thessalonians 2:
13 And we also thank God continually because, when you received the word of God, which you heard from us, you accepted it not as a human word, but as it actually is, the word of God, which is indeed at work in you who believe. 14 For you, brothers and sisters, became imitators of God’s churches in Judea, which are in Christ Jesus: You suffered from your own people the same things those churches suffered from the Jews 15 who killed the Lord Jesus and the prophets and also drove us out. They displease God and are hostile to everyone 16 in their effort to keep us from speaking to the Gentiles so that they may be saved. In this way they always heap up their sins to the limit. The wrath of God has come upon them at last.[Or them fully]
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I will go back and read it all again closer. I agree with much of what I read,
I do not believe neither C nor A had it correct. Verse 8:28 is key.
And we know that all things work together for good to them that love God, to them who are the called according to purpose.
I removed his for there is no need for it. The called are called for purpose. The purpose isn't eternal life but the purpose requires eternal life. The purpose is to rule and judge with Christ in the kingdom of God. Jesus said except a man be born again he cannot enter the kingdom of God. Jesus said nothing here about sin. All have sinned and come short of the glory of God. The reason. That which is born of the flesh is flesh. Corruptible. You must be born again to rule and judge with Christ in the kingdom of God. Therefore the called were predestined conformed to the image of the resurrected Jesus Christ. That is seen in that at that moment of being conformed to the image, at that moment at the twinkling of an eye Jesus will become the firstborn of many brethren. Presently Jesus is not only the firstborn from the dead he is the only one born from the dead.
These passages do not deal with the uncalled for purpose. IMHO