Because all of the leaders of those religions are dead. Jesus Christ said he would be resurrected from the dead in three days, and he was. That's someone whose claims are worth investigating.
-
Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!
God's Not Dead
- Thread starter evangelist6589
- Start date
Because all of the leaders of those religions are dead. Jesus Christ said he would be resurrected from the dead in three days, and he was. That's someone whose claims are worth investigating.
So the atheist will then say, prove it! And then we get into apologetics arguments to defend the resurrection of Christ.
You've missed his point.
He is showing from scripture that the words of God have power - nothing else is essential.
You responded with an anecdote about sermon preparation. Your pastor, if he is doing what you say, is simply studying scripture and using the commentaries as a reference to ensure that he has thought through all of the issues and to point out things he may have missed.
If your pastor is trying to find his sermons in the commentaries (which I hope for everyone's sake is not true), then your point might hold. But I sincerely doubt that is the case.
No, then you get into those arguments. "Jesus changed my life" has no counterargument.
I have nothing against books, but there is also a profit motive involved in the creation of books. The problem is, many Christians who have not been discipled and have not visible evidence that Christ is active in their lives feel helpless when faced with questions from an unbeliever. So they buy a book as a short-term fix, hoping to quickly solve the problem that someone who is doubting or an unbeliever has. At best, it is a band-aid solution.
In my experience, the real issue for atheists is that they don't see any sort of spiritual reality in the life of the church or the believers they know. They have not recognized it in their lives (if they were formerly a "believer") because they were manipulated into some kind of decision at one time but never connected with the reality of Jesus. A book is not going to fix that. Only a transformed life lived out before them.
Honestly, I usually don't use the Bible at first to witness to an atheist, unless our first conversation happens to be about the Bible. Usually, I generally talk to them about one of the big issues of human kind live the persistence of evil in a society that is supposed to be evolving upward, the nature of death, what it means to be a "good person", and how do we become a "good person," for example.
That naturally moves into questions that the Bible directly addresses, and we can talk about whether or not the Bible speaks realistically and coherently about those subjects (it does).
And then you are well on your want to letting the Bible speak into that person's life, acting as a guide and trusted friend.
I don't know what kind of educational environment you are talking about, but witnessing is not a college class or simply making it a presentation. It is about connecting with people and introducing them to Jesus.
You are completely missing the boat here. It is not your job to tell an atheist to read a book. It is your job to be a witness. That being said, I gave a book to an atheist friend this week that I think will be extremely helpful to him. I gave it to him when he was ready - weeks after we began our conversation, and it is not a book of arguments for God. It is a book that discusses the relationship of science and the scriptures in a helpful way. But that happen well into a discussion with a friend that I have known for several years and have not beaten him over the head with the gospel. He trusts me to let him explore these issues at his own pace.
Skimming a book I read once just now I was able to find 2 apologetic arguments to defend the resurrection of Christ that will do nothing but get the skeptic to think.
If Christ did not raise then explain how the 4000 pound stone was moved?
If Christ did not raise and the disciples fabricated the story then why did he first appear to women? Study the culture and authority women had in the first century.
All this in just 3 pages of reading and I am sure there are tons more arguments.
Your problem is that you think a transformer life is all there is but this is not true. It is one argument in defense of the scripture and Christianity yes because the Holy Spirit is at work.
Friendship Evangelism is not the key. Gods calling on the elect is the key. Yes of coarse we need to let our lives and mouths bring forth a witness to a Christ. However without a gospel presentation how are we any different than the Mormons who also live good lives?
This is why it is so hard to witness at the job. One can’t speak on Jesus, pass out tracts, or open air.
Atheist response: Disciples moved it and stole the body.
Atheist: Christ did not rise from the dead, so he didn't appear to the women first, or to anyone.
No, I never said "it is all there is", I said that it is an irrefutable argument. All your apologetics are refutable. Ultimately faith is going to be needed.
I agree
I never said it was "the key." I simply pointed to what has been effective with atheists, in my experience. If you have had enormous numbers of converts your way, I'd certainly like to hear about that. But the Spirit works with people through a process.
I realize that you like to be at the decision point of the process, but I am happy to work anywhere along that process -- and yes, I have been present when atheists I have been working with have come to faith. I've only been present for about a half dozen moments of decision, but I hear of more. I'm not obsessive about the number because it is not my harvest.
Obviously, but you seem dead set against God working with people in a process - you want it to happen all at once.
Who has claimed that there is no gospel presentation? Oh right, you are the only one.
I am not living a "good life" in front of them, I am living a relationship with God in front of them, which does result in steady transformation. But it is a real life, full of failures and victories. And it involves a verbal witness as well as a lived witness.
Only in your imagination is there no verbal witness.
I don't have any trouble witnessing on the job. I treat people fairly, don't gossip, invest in other people's lives to help them improve at their work and career, walk through them through the joys and sorrows of life, and not be shy about who I am or that I am a disciple of Jesus. Being a disciple of Jesus usually does involve being obnoxious. Remember, Jesus had a magnetic personality and people were drawn to Him. If we are disciples of Jesus, we can expect the same thing.
Most of us are not at work to "open air" preach or pass out literature. However, we can have conversations about Jesus at appropriate times. I often talk to people about faith issues during the lunch hour. The fact that you find it 'hard to witness at the job" tells me that you think evangelism is primarily about "doing" rather than "being." If you are truly an evangelist, you will naturally do the work of an evangelist and God will work out the circumstances for you in an appropriate way. If you are not an evangelist (that is, your character transformed in a way where you naturally share the gospel), you will find yourself figuring out clever arguments or using gimmicks in a vain attempt to be effective. God doesn't need cleverness or gimmicks to do His work.
One of the more interesting aspects of my intentional discipleship journey is that I have people coming to me to talk about Jesus. While I am intentional and responsive to the Spirit's leading to certain people, I find that I am doing a full gospel presentation with people who approach me about three times a month, on average. It is very natural and unforced, and I don't have to be clever or use gimmicks. And when I share the gospel intentionally, it is also quite natural and unforced. I simply pray for God to guide the conversation and next thing I know we are talking about Christ.
Perhaps the OP forgets:
6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
Unless these are in effect all “arguments” presented will fall on stony or shallow soil. Mental ascent is not life changing which takes the seed to something very different at harvest.
6And without faith it is impossible to please Him, for he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who seek Him.
Unless these are in effect all “arguments” presented will fall on stony or shallow soil. Mental ascent is not life changing which takes the seed to something very different at harvest.
Oops! What I meant to write was, "Being a disciple of Jesus usually does NOT involve being obnoxious."
My brain got ahead of my fingers again.
Obviously
Obviously
Looking at how some professing Christians live their lives, I doubt this is as obvious as you think.
The wind blows where it wishes and you hear the sound of it, but do not know where it comes from and where it is going; so is everyone who is born of the Spirit. What if there is no wind?
Paul said he was all things to all people that he might win some to Christ
Then stop all this nonsense about this book and that book and stick to God's book! None of the others are God's word!
How far is this to be taken?
Was he speaking of political views?
Was he speaking of theological views?
Was he speaking of social views?
Was he speaking of cultural views?