God's Wisdom versus Earthly, Sensual, and Demonic Wisdom about Instrumental Music

[Scarlett O.]

Good. What else does that mean Christians must do?

We don't know what you are talking about when you say "what else" because you refuse to tell us the point you are making in this thread.

I was in the marching band as a student and we had snare drums and bass drums. Should Christians avoid that? Is that what you are saying?

What if a toddler takes a shoe box or pot from the kitchen or an empty vessel of any kind that would make a sound when struck and begins to strike it. Should his Christian parents be alarmed?

 

[Ben1445]

Good. What else does that mean Christians must do?

That is the question we have been asking you to answer.

 

[Scarlett O.]

I am with @Aaron. I deny that these bizarre "skulls" are indeed musical instruments.

As far as genuine musical instruments, whether mentioned in the Bible or not, the evil is in the heart of the player or the intention of the composer.

The evil cannot be in the brass, strings, other metals, wood, or synthetic material. If so, then the objects made from those same materials that are NOT musical instruments would be evil also.

Christians could not build houses, drive cars, wear certain clothing, certain shoes, buy their children toys, etc.

The OP is going to HAVE to come clean with the point he is trying to make.

I play the piano at my church and have for forty-nine years. Someone else may play the same brand piano at a bar. Therein lies the difference.

The evil is in the heart of a human being.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I am with @Aaron. I deny that these bizarre "skulls" are indeed musical instruments.

You can deny all you want that they are musical instruments, but your denial does not carry any evidential weight. The people who make them and use them say that they are musical instruments. Certain expert musicians and other music authorities say that they are musical instruments. More importantly, there is not anything in the Bible that shows that they are not musical instruments.

 

[Scarlett O.]

You can deny all you want that they are musical instruments. The people who make them and use them say that they are musical instruments. There is not anything in the Bible that shows that they are not musical instruments.

I think you are sitting there eating popcorn laughing at all of us who are just wanting you to make your point. You MUST have one.

Le Sigh = We shall never know it. I'm moving on.

 

[Ascetic X]

You can deny all you want that they are musical instruments. The people who make them and use them say that they are musical instruments. There is not anything in the Bible that shows that they are not musical instruments.

Then show us where the Bible says human skulls are musical nstruments.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Then show us where the Bible says human skulls are musical nstruments.

Show me where the Bible says that drum kits, saxophones, xylophones, keyboards, kazoos etc., etc. are musical instruments.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I think you are sitting there eating popcorn laughing at all of us who are just wanting you to make your point. You MUST have one.

Le Sigh = We shall never know it. I'm moving on.

I am not at all doing what you say here. I am very serious that there are evil humans who have created wicked musical instruments and wicked kinds of instrumental music with earthly, sensual, and demonic wisdom. Christians must categorically reject all of those instruments and all of those kinds of instrumental music.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

That is the question we have been asking you to answer.

I am in the process of doing so. I have already shown that sinful humans with their earthly, sensual, and demonic wisdom can create statutes and musical instruments that are intrinsically evil. In the same way, what can they do with the kinds of instrumental music that they play with earthly, sensual, and demonic wisdom?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I'm not aware that the manufacture of trumpets is laid down in Scripture. No doubt if they were made from human body parts we should not use them, and I think it would probably be illegal to do such a thing anyway.
Personally, I do not like the use of brass instruments in the worship of God, and I'm not inclined to think that Temple worship is a pattern for New Testament Christians anyway. The NT does not mention musical instruments, and I would be quite happy if all hymns were sung a capella so long as there was someone available who was gifted to keep us all in time and tune. As it is, I believeve that musical instruments are best used simply for that reason, and 'guitar breaks' and the like are just musicians showing off, which should not happen in the worship of God..
But I don't believe that any musical instrument is ungodly in and of itself. If you believe otherwise you will have to show me from the Bible.

Just so I am clear about your views, do you deny that human skull drums are musical instruments? Do you deny that they are ungodly in and of themselves?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Here is some of what the Encyclopedia Brittanica has under its treatment of "Musical instruments in the Americas":

Other idiophones include scrapers, friction idiophones, and plucked idiophones. Scrapers or rasps are serrated objects that are scraped with a stick or other implement. Rasps are used as musical instruments throughout the Americas and are made from various materials, including notched sticks, dried alligator skin, armadillo shells, gourds, food graters, and sections of corrugated tin. The Mixtec made rasps from bone, using a human skull as a resonator. Unlike rasps, friction idiophones consist of a solid or hollow body with a smooth surface rubbed with a stick or other implement. The Aztec áyotl was a tortoise shell rubbed on its ventral side with a stick. Plucked idiophones consist of a flexible tongue or lamella that is fixed to a frame and plucked with the finger or thumb; while these are not widespread among American Indians, one example is the jew’s harp, which the Mapuche play.

The author and editors of this Encyclopedia Brittanica article plainly do not regard the use of human skulls in the making of a physical object as rendering that physical object incapable of being a musical instrument.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Here is another source that shows that certain experts do consider skull drums to be musical instruments:

The discovery was made by a team of coastal archaeologists from the University of Texas who were surveying an old ceremonial site near Corpus Christi. Hidden beneath layers of sand and sediment, they unearthed multiple bone flutes, skull drums, and femur whistles—each carefully crafted from human remains. Carbon dating places the origin of these instruments around the year 1225, aligning with the peak period of Aztec spiritual influence in Mesoamerica.
https://www.oxfordarchaeologicalsociety.com/800-year-old-human-bones/
What’s most astonishing is not just the age of the bones, but the fact that they were artistically hollowed, shaped, and polished in ways that reveal knowledge of sound vibration, resonance, and musical scale.
https://www.oxfordarchaeologicalsociety.com/800-year-old-human-bones/

Aztec Ritual Connections​

Experts believe these instruments were used during sacred Aztec death rituals or spiritual ceremonies to communicate with gods or spirits. The Aztecs viewed death not as an end but as a transition, and music played a crucial role in guiding souls through the afterlife.
https://www.oxfordarchaeologicalsociety.com/800-year-old-human-bones/
Also read
800‑Year‑Old Human Bones Turned Into Musical Instruments Discovered in South Texas—Aztec‑Era Ritual Tools Unearthed

• Bone flutes were believed to summon deities or warn enemies.
• Skull drums were used to keep rhythm during ritual sacrifices.
• Femur whistles emitted ghostly tones symbolizing the cries of the underworld.

Dr. Ana Mendoza, a Mesoamerican anthropologist, explained, “This discovery proves the Aztecs not only mastered agriculture and architecture but also had deep understanding of sound and symbolism. Music wasn’t just entertainment—it was a sacred tool.”

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Here is another expert source that says that skull drums are musical instruments:

The thod-rnga (‘skull drum’) is a double-head rattle-drum membranophone. It is a Buddhist ritual instrument originating in Tibet but now also used in countries to which refugees from the Chinese subjugation of Tibet came to settle, including Nepal, Bhutan, and India. It is a specific form of a more widespread drum type called damaru. What sets the thod-rnga apart from other South Asian damaru drums is the material from which the shell is made--the crowns of two human skulls, preferably one male and the other female, both of whom died a violent death (Dick and Helffer, p. 539). Often pictured in Tibetan Buddhist art as an attribute of fierce protective deities, perhaps the numerous metal mask-like decorations imbedded in resin around the rims of the thod-rnga pictured here also represent such deities (see detail photo). This drum, often played in conjunction with a bell (dril-bu) or bone trumpet (rkang-gling), is used as a ritual implement by monks while chanting and meditating upon Tantric Buddhist religious texts (audio #1).

 

[Aaron]

Show me where the Bible says that drum kits, saxophones, xylophones, keyboards, kazoos etc., etc. are musical instruments.

I would admit that a kazoo is inherently evil.

 

[Aaron]

Just so I am clear about your views, do you deny that human skull drums are musical instruments? Do you deny that they are ungodly in and of themselves?

Pretend that we agree with all your assertions thus far. What would you say next?

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I would admit that a kazoo is inherently evil.

You would do well to remember that Christians will give an account to God for every idle word. Your conduct is unbecoming of a mature Christian who submits to God's demand that all his speech must be edifying.

It is also unfair to me that comments like these comments that are unedifying use up the limited space that is allowed for the length of a thread.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

Pretend that we agree with all your assertions thus far. What would you say next?

My assertions are worthless if they are not in keeping with the truth of God.

For some unfathomable reason, you seemingly deny that there is earthly, sensual, and demonic wisdom about the making of musical instruments.

In effect, you assert that all wisdom about the making of musical instruments is always and only the wisdom from God that is the wisdom from above. If that is what you believe, you need to show us how the Bible itself teaches that is true.

 

[Charlie24]

My assertions are worthless if they are not in keeping with the truth of God.

For some unfathomable reason, you seemingly deny that there is earthly, sensual, and demonic wisdom about the making of musical instruments.

In effect, you assert that all wisdom about the making of musical instruments is always and only the wisdom from God that is the wisdom from above. If that is what you believe, you need to show us how the Bible itself teaches that is true.

I agree with you, Brother, but most will not.

 

[Scripture More Accurately]

I agree with you, Brother, but most will not.

Thank you for letting me know of your agreement with this very important point that is plainly in keeping with the teaching of Scripture about what sinful humans who hate God are:

Romans 1:30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

Sadly, many Christians believe that what the Spirit means here is the following: "inventors of evil things except, of course, for musical instruments and kinds of instrumental music, none of which can be evil, disobedient to parents . . ."

 

[Guy Humphries]

Heb 4:12b “a discerner of. The thoughts and INTENTS of the Heart.” Is the specific instrument used to reverence The Almighty or to mimic the world?