Zechariah 14 is the Second Coming, Christ returns to earth after the great tribulation.
HankD
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God's word [and] Dispensationalism
- Thread starter Hermeneut7
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HankD
To whom was the Lord talking, and for what reason was the discussion?
Until one answers such questions, it is not unusual to see mistaken applications such as the use of these two passages to think Satan is currently bound.
They just do not support that thinking.
prophecy70
Active Member
How does this view Save all of Israel, when you are calling for only 1/3 of the Jewish population to saved? Today Thats 4 million dead Jews that God promised he would not forget?
Tim LaHaye
“Prior to Israel’s conversion, Zechariah predicts that two-thirds (‘two parts’) of the Jewish people in the land will perish during the tribulation period. Only one third of the Jewish population will survive until Christ comes to establish His kingdom on earth.
Charles Ryrie
“Jacob’s trouble is that coming period of distress described by Jesus as He spoke to His disciples on the Mount of Olives. Jeremiah labeled it ‘Jacob’s trouble’ and said it would be unique in all history (Jeremiah 30:7). Jesus called it a period of unprecedented tribulation (Matthew 24:21) this will be the time of Israel’s greatest bloodbath.
John F. Walvoord
“The purge of Israel in their time of trouble is described by Zechariah in these words: ‘And it shall come to pass, that in all the land, saith Jehovah, two parts therein shall be cut off and die; but the third shall be left therein. And I will bring the third part into the fire, and will refine them as silver is refined, and will try them as gold is tried’ (Zechariah 13:8, 9). According to Zechariah’s prophecy, two thirds of the children of Israel in the land will perish, but the one third that are left will be refined and be awaiting the deliverance of God at the second coming of Christ which is described in the next chapter of Zechariah.
Does not mean that every Jew from all time gets saved, but that those who were to get saved all will!
prophecy70
Active Member
But that those who were to get saved all will? I do not understand.
You believe 4 million jews have to be be slaughtered to save 2 million?
I just don't see how thats saving all of Israel.
I see the Lord saving out for Himself among Jews peopke a remnant, saved by Grace, as he always has!
prophecy70
Active Member
How is that saving by grace? Calling for Animal Sacrifices to return? How do these Jews get saved? By Jesus or By the law?
Those alive at His second coming will all get saved by Grace, as a nation will be reborn in a Day, and a fountain of salvation opened up in Jerusalem!
prophecy70
Active Member
Verse to back this up?
Isaiah 66:7-8: Before going into labor, she gave birth; before her pains came, she delivered a male child. Who ever heard of such at thing? Who has ever seen such things? Is a country born in one day? Is a nation brought forth all at once? For as soon as Tziyon went into labor, she brought forth her children.- Stern's Complete Jewish Bible
prophecy70
Active Member
Lets continue
Isaiah 66
12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
Galatians 4
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? one by a slave woman and fone by a free woman. the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. icovenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” of the free woman.
what nation was born in a day?
Isaiah 66
12 For thus saith the LORD, Behold, I will extend peace to her like a river, and the glory of the Gentiles like a flowing stream: then shall ye suck, ye shall be borne upon her sides, and be dandled upon her knees.
13 As one whom his mother comforteth, so will I comfort you; and ye shall be comforted in Jerusalem.
Galatians 4
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not listen to the law? one by a slave woman and fone by a free woman. the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, while the son of the free woman was born through promise. icovenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother. “Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor!
For the children of the desolate one will be more
than those of the one who has a husband.”
brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. “Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.” of the free woman.
what nation was born in a day?
If your going to use Scripture, please keep in mind the context.
Paul is using the imagery of the status of the owner's child.
1Now I say, as long as the heir is a child, he does not differ at all from a slave although he is owner of everything, 2but he is under guardians and managers until the date set by the father. 3So also we, while we were children, were held in bondage under the elemental things of the world. 4But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth His Son, born of a woman, born under the Law, 5so that He might redeem those who were under the Law, that we might receive the adoption as sons. 6Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, “Abba! Father!” 7Therefore you are no longer a slave, but a son; and if a son, then an heir through God.
prophecy70
Active Member
I dont understand what you think the context is in the chapter?
The context is The jewish people under the law "slavery", And now the "New Jerusalem" is through Jesus and being Christian.
Isaiah 66:7-8
Is not about the city of jerusalem, but rather spiritual Jerusalem, New Jerusalem the one above.
So Back my question how does animal sacrifices being reinstated, get Israel to be saved by grace?
Oh my,
Did you not read "So also we, ..."
The passage explores the believers as the child of the king, yet under the authority of the elemental things until in the time God had established for the purpose of redemption.
That is the context of Galatians 4.
The letter is not even addressed to Jews or Gentiles but to believers for there is no difference in redemption.
prophecy70
Active Member
Exactly, I don't understand now why you need a return to OT laws, (animal sacrifices, a new temple, etc) when there is no difference in redemption now.
So if you stay in context of Isaiah 66, how do you get its about Israel 2000 years later?
Isaiah 66
13 As one whom his mother comforts, so I will comfort you; And you shall be comforted in Jerusalem.“
Not earthy Jerusalem, but heavily.
In the next verse Paul quotes from Isaiah 54:1, a passage which is parallel to Isaiah 66:
“For it is written, ‘Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear; break forth and cry aloud, you who are not in labor. For the children of the desolate one will be more than those of the one who has a husband’ (Galatians 4:27).
Observe how Paul goes on to interpret Isaiah 54:1.
“Now you, brothers, like Isaac, are children of promise. But just as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so also it is now. But what does the Scripture say? ‘Cast out the slave woman and her son, for the son of the slave woman shall not inherit with the son of the free woman.’ So, brothers, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman” (Galatians 4:27-31).
Isaiah 66:8 is parallel to Isaiah 54:1, and it ought to be seen in the same way that Paul made application of Isaiah 54:1 in Galatians 4. Isaiah foresaw the birthing and the breaking forth of the heavenly Jerusalem (66:8-10), even as earthly Jerusalem met her demise (66:6). Ironically, Isaiah 66 does not speak of the restoration of earthly Jerusalem into the hands of mostly unbelieving Jews in 1948. Rather, it mirrors the taking away of the earthly kingdom from unfaithful Israel (in 70 AD), and the giving of the heavenly kingdom to God’s holy nation, the Church, just as Jesus predicted (Matthew 21:43-44; cf. Daniel 7:18, 22, 27). It speaks of the establishment of the new Jerusalem for the bride of Christ, and the dissolving of the old covenant in favor of the new covenant (which was established at the cross). This is the point of both Isaiah and Paul.
Galatians 4 Shows That Isaiah 66 Is Not About Modern Israel
Yes said:
The nation born in one day was the church at Pentecost, the holy nation Peter writes of in 1 Peter 2, & the holy nation prophesied in Exodus 19. A year or so after Pentecost, Stephen quoted the beginning of Isaiah 66 in his condemnation of the Jews.
OT prophecy was fulfilled by Jesus in his life, death & resurrection, & in the church.
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I see there is confusion as the use of Ezekiel’s temple prior to and then after the return.
Prior to the return, the Jews are unsaved, except for a specific number, it is culturally imbedded the they find the red heifer and reestablish the mosaic law of sacrifice and offerings. (See red heifer: What is the significance of a red heifer in the Bible? Is a red heifer a sign of the end times?).
After the return, the temple is used not for sacrific of sin, but for tithes from the nations and offerings of praise and thanksgiving.
Redemption of all eras (ages, dispensations, covenants) remains the same.
What changes is the hearts at redemption.
The heart of the Jews remains darkened (again, with the exception of the few) until they “look upon Him who they pierced.” They look upon Him at the second coming and during the millennium.
The Old Testiment prophecies concerning the pre-millennial estate are not in conflict if there is a temple with the Law sacrifices.
However, in any other scheme, the prophecies of that time are skewed, and more often regarded in some manipulated fashion.
This is what is being shown in your post.
Paul is stating to the Galatians that the believer should not allow the old nature with the lusts and bondage to control them. He is using the OT in speaking of prophecy, but of conduct.
Do you not recall this same Paul wrote Romans 11?
I say then, God has not rejected His people, has He? May it never be! For I too am an Israelite, a descendant of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin. 2God has not rejected His people whom He foreknew. Or do you not know what the Scripture says in the passage about Elijah, how he pleads with God against Israel? 3“Lord, THEY HAVE KILLED YOUR PROPHETS, THEY HAVE TORN DOWN YOUR ALTARS, AND I ALONE AM LEFT, AND THEY ARE SEEKING MY LIFE.” 4But what is the divine response to him? “I HAVE KEPT for Myself SEVEN THOUSAND MEN WHO HAVE NOT BOWED THE KNEE TO BAAL.” 5In the same way then, there has also come to be at the present time a remnant according to God’s gracious choice. 6But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works, otherwise grace is no longer grace.
The caps are not my emphasis but are quotes from the OT that the NASB rather than quotation marks.
Amazing!
So, all of Isaiah, Jeremiah, Ezekiel, ... were fulfilled.
There is no future at all, no heavenly estate.
ALL prophecy has been fulfilled.
Mankind eats, sleeps, dies, and then nothing.
Really?
It is hard to have a conversation, when a total discredit is given to all prophetic statements in the OT!
prophecy70
Active Member
Merely taking the post to the logical conclusion.
If all prophecies of the OT were fulfilled, there is nothing left, no future, no hope, nothing.