Going going gone ..

[HankD]

Hi Hank please rummage around the two issues (1) 1000 year literal reign on earth and (2) the church is grafted into "all Israel.:

The two are compatible IMO.
In the Book of Acts the kingdom was offered to Israel and they refused.

Acts 13:46 Then Paul and Barnabas waxed bold, and said, It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles.

Acts 18:6 And when they opposed themselves, and blasphemed, he shook his raiment, and said unto them, Your blood be upon your own heads; I am clean: from henceforth I will go unto the Gentiles.

In fact my view is that we are already grafted in (on the Day of Pentecost) awaiting the return of Jesus to set up the kingdom where all of Abraham's children of faith shall reign with Him (Jesus).

However they (Israel, Church) are distinct entities with distinct economies..

Yes I could be wrong in the details.

 

[Van]

If we are children of Abraham, grafted into "all Israel" then we are not two entities but one.
And will there be a literal 1000 year reign of Jesus on earth?

 

[HankD]

If we are children of Abraham, grafted into "all Israel" then we are not two entities but one.
And will there be a literal 1000 year reign of Jesus on earth?

We are two distinct entities and yes.

Israel and the Church will go on into eternity

Revelation 21
10 And he carried me away in the spirit to a great and high mountain, and shewed me that great city, the holy Jerusalem, descending out of heaven from God,
11 Having the glory of God: and her light was like unto a stone most precious, even like a jasper stone, clear as crystal;
12 And had a wall great and high, and had twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and names written thereon, which are the names of the twelve tribes of the children of Israel:
13 On the east three gates; on the north three gates; on the south three gates; and on the west three gates.
14 And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and in them the names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

 

[Darrell C]

Not as much as you do, apparently. I know far more about the authentic than the contrived.

You can show that through pointing out why we shouldn't hold...

Amillennialism in a very negative light,

The Amillennial position is not "authentic," it denies the very Word of God.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Dispensationalism is one of the most cluttered theological body of beliefs in Christendom

How so?


God bless.

 

[TCassidy]

 

[HankD]

How so?


God bless.

Its history, its many different versions, its many differing authors with many different opinions.

 

[thatbrian]

Dispensationalism is one of the most cluttered theological body of beliefs in Christendom

Have I ever told you that I love you, Hank?

 

[HankD]

Have I ever told you that I love you, Hank?

Thank you and ditto

 

[atpollard]

The Amillennial position is not "authentic," it denies the very Word of God.

Which “word” of God?
Is it the LITERAL interpretation of a vision that also includes a dragon attempting to eat a woman and her child?

I am not Amillenial, but I hope you have something outside Revelation to hang such an emphatic opinion on, because I strip gears trying to follow the shifts from verses in Revelation that people say MUST be literal to verses that cannot be anything but symbolic (and the whole thing is a vision, after all).

 

[HankD]

Which “word” of God?
Is it the LITERAL interpretation of a vision that also includes a dragon attempting to eat a woman and her child?

I am not Amillenial, but I hope you have something outside Revelation to hang such an emphatic opinion on, because I strip gears trying to follow the shifts from verses in Revelation that people say MUST be literal to verses that cannot be anything but symbolic (and the whole thing is a vision, after all).

No, I don't believe it "denies the very Word of God" especially in a book (Revelation) which is chock full of figures of speech of all kinds to say that Revelation Chapter 20 is symbolism of a long period of time.

 

[thatbrian]

Which “word” of God?
Is it the LITERAL interpretation of a vision that also includes a dragon attempting to eat a woman and her child?

The people who claim their interpretation is literal have real problems with texts like that.

 

[Van]

We are two distinct entities and yes.
Israel and the Church will go on into eternity

LOL, still no answer to whether you believe in a literal 1000 year reign on earth.
The progressive Dispensationalist view believes "All Israel" refers to all the elect, both Jews and Gentiles. chosen under the Old and New Covenants.

 

[Darrell C]

Dispensationalism is one of the most cluttered theological body of beliefs in Christendom

Dispensational Theology is by far the best System to embrace. It does not reject the Prophecy of Scripture as most Systems do. It does not spiritualize everything to the point where we wonder how those who do so think they can even rely on Scripture.

Its history, its many different versions, its many differing authors with many different opinions.

Why would differing views among adherents make it "cluttered?"

Often "differing views" help to point out what is not solid, which makes for a stronger system.

But can you give a couple specific examples of what it is that makes it seem "cluttered" to you?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Which “word” of God?

THE Word of God.

There is only one.

Is it the LITERAL interpretation of a vision that also includes a dragon attempting to eat a woman and her child?

False argument. Most that are dispensational understand that figurative language is used to illustrate a truth, and those who get hung up, like you, apparently do not understand that despite the employment of figurative language...

...there is still a truth being taught.

In the case of the Dragon, the truth is that it refers to Satan's attempt to destroy both Israel and Christ. Not that hard to understand when you understand what has taken place in regards to Satan, Israel, and the Christ.

I am not Amillenial, but I hope you have something outside Revelation to hang such an emphatic opinion on,

I have the entire Word of God in which to hang many emphatic positions on. And I am quite confident I can show you that they are not opinions, but the reasonable conclusions of properly interpreting the Word of God.

And the fact is, when I debate amillenialists and preterists, it always ends the same way...they cannot address the points made so bow out of the discussion.

If there is anything you would like to discuss I would be glad to look at it with you.

And if you don't mind...what exactly are you?

because I strip gears trying to follow the shifts from verses in Revelation that people say MUST be literal to verses that cannot be anything but symbolic (and the whole thing is a vision, after all).

Again, a false argument, which shows you reject a Dispensational view based on emotion.

How's that working out for you?

What is literal in this...

Genesis 15:1
King James Version (KJV)

15 After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying, Fear not, Abram: I am thy shield, and thy exceeding great reward.

...?


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

The people who claim their interpretation is literal have real problems with texts like that.

No we don't, lol.

Satan has literally tried to destroy Israel and the Christ, and he will again try to destroy Israel in the Tribulation:


Revelation 12:13-14
King James Version (KJV)

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


I can't tell you how sad it is to see someone like you mocking a system that could actually help him to understand Scripture better.

Is that the best you have? Your misunderstanding of what Dispensationalists believe?

Pity.

So Who is the Man Child spoken of here? Who is the Woman? Just because figurative language is used doesn't mean truths are not conveyed which God gave for you to understand...one way.


God bless.

 

[thatbrian]

No we don't, lol.

Satan has literally tried to destroy Israel and the Christ, and he will again try to destroy Israel in the Tribulation:


Revelation 12:13-14
King James Version (KJV)

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

14 And to the woman were given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness, into her place, where she is nourished for a time, and times, and half a time, from the face of the serpent.


I can't tell you how sad it is to see someone like you mocking a system that could actually help him to understand Scripture better.

Is that the best you have? Your misunderstanding of what Dispensationalists believe?

Pity.

So Who is the Man Child spoken of here? Who is the Woman? Just because figurative language is used doesn't mean truths are not conveyed which God gave for you to understand...one way.


God bless.

I try not to interact with those who resort to ad hom, especially as quickly as you have here.

 

[Darrell C]

The people who claim their interpretation is literal have real problems with texts like that.

I try not to interact with those who resort to ad hom, especially as quickly as you have here.

Oh, so not only without understanding, but a hypocrite as well?

Or do you just forget what it is you say?

The truth is you will not defend your position because you cannot. If you use a goad as an excuse, well, that's your right. So continue to make unwarranted statements against things you have no understanding of, and I will continue to point htat out.




God bless.

 

[thatbrian]

Oh, so not only without understanding, but a hypocrite as well?

Or do you just forget what it is you say?

The truth is you will not defend your position because you cannot. If you use a goad as an excuse, well, that's your right. So continue to make unwarranted statements against things you have no understanding of, and I will continue to point htat out.




God bless.

Since you act like an uncivilized person, and you don't even understand what ad hominem means, I've had to add you to the ignore list.

 

[thatbrian]

A dispensationalist "literal" view of the end times: