Good versus Evil

[Skandelon]

If God has decreed (determined) all things to happen for His Glory and His Glory is the greatest good, then what determines whether an act is deemed good or evil?

If all actions, choices and events that take place are decreed by God to occur for his greatest Glory then doesn't that make everything that happens ultimately 'good?'

On what grounds can one speak about a past atrocity as being "evil" when it was determined by God for his Glory?

 

[Sapper Woody]

If God has decreed (determined) all things to happen for His Glory and His Glory is the greatest good, then what determines whether an act is deemed good or evil?

If all actions, choices and events that take place are decreed by God to occur for his greatest Glory then doesn't that make everything that happens ultimately 'good?'

On what grounds can one speak about a past atrocity as being "evil" when it was determined by God for his Glory?

I think we can answer that with the words of Joseph to his brothers when he said that they intended evil but the Lord meant it for good.

Man can be evil. Man can do evil. But God is powerful enough to take evil actions and intentions and use them for His glory. Could God have gotten Joseph into power in Egypt without the trials he faced? Yes, He could have. But even greater glory to Him comes from triumph.

In a more direct answer, evil can be called evil because if we called it good, there would be no triumph, and therefore no glory.

 

[Skandelon]

Good answer. I agree that God takes evil and uses it to bring about good, but that doesn't necessitate God determining the evil, right?

In other words, God can bring about his purposes in, through and despite man's evil choices. That doesn't mean God determined their choices to be evil, right?

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

If God has decreed (determined) all things to happen for His Glory and His Glory is the greatest good, then what determines whether an act is deemed good or evil?

The intent of heart in the person undertaking it.

 

[Sapper Woody]

Good answer. I agree that God takes evil and uses it to bring about good, but that doesn't necessitate God determining the evil, right?

In other words, God can bring about his purposes in, through and despite man's evil choices. That doesn't mean God determined their choices to be evil, right?

I personally believe that God does not decide for evil to occur. But since He knows it will occur, He allows it so that the triumph is even greater.

I think of Job. God didn't make the bad happen. But He allowed it for his glory.

 

[saturneptune]

If God has decreed (determined) all things to happen for His Glory and His Glory is the greatest good, then what determines whether an act is deemed good or evil?

If all actions, choices and events that take place are decreed by God to occur for his greatest Glory then doesn't that make everything that happens ultimately 'good?'

On what grounds can one speak about a past atrocity as being "evil" when it was determined by God for his Glory?

Duh..........Good = agreeing with Scripture, evil= not agreeing........

 

[Sapper Woody]

Duh..........Good = agreeing with Scripture, evil= not agreeing........

I don't think he was talking about sin or not sin. Using Joseph again for an example, we know that what his brothers did to him was sin. The question was basically that if God made it happen, and God is good and just, how can we as men call it evil? But I think I adequately answered that. At the minimum, I expressed my opinion.

 

[Skandelon]

I personally believe that God does not decide for evil to occur. But since He knows it will occur, He allows it so that the triumph is even greater.

I think of Job. God didn't make the bad happen. But He allowed it for his glory.

I agree. Well stated.:thumbs:

 

[Luke2427]

If God has decreed (determined) all things to happen for His Glory and His Glory is the greatest good, then what determines whether an act is deemed good or evil?

If all actions, choices and events that take place are decreed by God to occur for his greatest Glory then doesn't that make everything that happens ultimately 'good?'

On what grounds can one speak about a past atrocity as being "evil" when it was determined by God for his Glory?

Motive

_____________

 

[Skandelon]

Motive

_____________

So if God lies, cheats, rapes, molests, steals, etc, etc, for the motive of bringing himself Glory it is not 'evil?' Right?

 

[Luke2427]

So if God lies, cheats, rapes, molests, steals, etc, etc, for the motive of bringing himself Glory it is not 'evil?' Right?

God ordains that these things come to pass for the ultimate glory that will come of them and as such his motive is for his own glory and it is the highest, holiest and noblest of all motives.

 

[Skandelon]

God ordains that these things come to pass for the ultimate glory that will come of them and as such his motive is for his own glory and it is the highest, holiest and noblest of all motives.

So, is that a yes? God does cheat, lie, molest, steal, rape for His own glory and thus it is not evil when He does it?

 

[Luke2427]

So, is that a yes? God does cheat, lie, molest, steal, rape for His own glory and thus it is not evil when He does it?

He ordains them for his glory.

 

[Skandelon]

He ordains them for his glory.

What's the difference specifically?

 

[Luke2427]

What's the difference specifically?

We both know where this is going, don't we?

This is not our first rodeo together.

It will end with you screaming at a straw man you've named after me who believes that Satan and God have the same motives or some other weirdo mess.

I'm going to say that God does not DO evil because evil is only evil because of the motive behind it.

You are going to ask where the motive came from.

I am going to say that God ordered the universe so that it would invincibly come to pass.

You're going to talk a lot about Jeffry Dahmer.

I'm going to point out that what Dahmer did does not compare to what Pilate, Herod and the Jews did when they crucified Jesus and the Bible clearly says that God ordained that that, the greatest evil of all time, should come to pass.

You're going to say without any support whatsoever that God only does that kind of thing on rare occasion for particular purposes.

I am going to point out that the Bible clearly and repeatedly says that God ordains all things.

You're going to ask a lot of "Why would God..." questions as if we could understand the thoughts of an omniscient God.

I am going to point out to you that omniscience means God knows all things including the future and that it is illogical to say that God already knows all things and that he learns as he goes at the same time.

You are going to accuse me of limiting God TO a linear view of time.

I am going to show you that you are actually the one that is limiting God because you are limiting him FROM a linear view of time.

And eventually you are going to get really angry and accuse me of equating God with Satan.

Do you really want to go through all of that again?

 

[Iconoclast]

So if God lies, cheats, rapes, molests, steals, etc, etc, for the motive of bringing himself Glory it is not 'evil?' Right?

To post this in reference to God is a horrible blasphemy.

 

[Skandelon]

We both know where this is going, don't we?

This is not our first rodeo together.

It will end with you screaming at a straw man you've named after me who believes that Satan and God have the same motives or some other weirdo mess.

I'm going to say that God does not DO evil because evil is only evil because of the motive behind it.

You are going to ask where the motive came from.

I am going to say that God ordered the universe so that it would invincibly come to pass.

You're going to talk a lot about Jeffry Dahmer.

I'm going to point out that what Dahmer did does not compare to what Pilate, Herod and the Jews did when they crucified Jesus and the Bible clearly says that God ordained that that, the greatest evil of all time, should come to pass.

You're going to say without any support whatsoever that God only does that kind of thing on rare occasion for particular purposes.

I am going to point out that the Bible clearly and repeatedly says that God ordains all things.

You're going to ask a lot of "Why would God..." questions as if we could understand the thoughts of an omniscient God.

I am going to point out to you that omniscience means God knows all things including the future and that it is illogical to say that God already knows all things and that he learns as he goes at the same time.

You are going to accuse me of limiting God TO a linear view of time.

I am going to show you that you are actually the one that is limiting God because you are limiting him FROM a linear view of time.

And eventually you are going to get really angry and accuse me of equating God with Satan.

Do you really want to go through all of that again?

I simply asked you to define for us the difference between God doing the sinful act and God ordaining the sinful act. You can answer that if you want, or you can choose not to reply.

 

[Skandelon]

To post this in reference to God is a horrible blasphemy.

It's a question about Luke's view, not an assertion of my belief. We are in agreement that such a belief is in error but given Luke's previous comments on this subject, I believe the question is justified...

 

[quantumfaith]

To post this in reference to God is a horrible blasphemy.

:tonofbricks::tonofbricks::tonofbricks:

 

[Luke2427]

I simply asked you to define for us the difference between God doing the sinful act and God ordaining the sinful act. You can answer that if you want, or you can choose not to reply.

So then the answer is "Yes" you do want to go through all of that again.

Suits me.

God cannot do evil but God can ordain that evil come to pass.

Evil is the privation of good just as cold and dark are the privation of warmth and light.

Warmth does not CREATE or DO cold. When removes itself from a place the RESULT is cold.