Gospel of the Wolves

[cotton]

Suzanne;
The main reason the Jewish believers did not fight alongside the Jewish non-believers is that Akiva, a prominent 'Rabbi' of the time, had promoted Bar Kochba (leader of the rebellion) as the Messiah; in order to join the rebellion, they would have had to accept Bar Kochba as the Messiah, which of course they couldn't go along with.

 

[suzanne]

Originally posted by trying2understand:
[QB]Well, Jim, let's look at the practices of today's Messianic Jews, who by the way believe that they are practicing the same as Jewish Christians of the first century.

There are many who are believe they are practicing as the first Christians (who were really Messiancs and Gentiles grafted in) so don't forget Baptists, Protestants and Catholics.

Please refrain from blanket statements and generalizations. This is the type of thing that breeds hatred and prejudice and I'm sure we don't need anymore of that in the Christian community.

A majority of the Messianic congregations in the United States are "charismatic" (believing in tongues, healing, etc.)

And you know this for a fact because?.....

Congregations typically call their leader a Rabbi.

And your point is?....

They generally observe the Shabbat (Sabbath), starting at sundown on Friday night.

soooo?...

many continue the practice of circumcision of male newborns.
Many Messianic Jews keep the strict rabbinical kosher dietary laws.
They observe all of the traditional Jewish holidays, such as Passover, Succoth, Shavuot, etc.

Well I'm just going to lump these together. There are also Messianics who DON'T do all these things, what's your point? If you are trying to infer that that are caught up in the law and legalism and that grace and faith are absent (maybe I'm reading too much into it) then you have taken it upon yourself to judge their heart toward God.

My family is from Hungary and there are traditions that we carry on because it connects us as family and it helps us remember our history, but there is never an obligation to take part.

could Messianic Jews who believe in tongues, obeserve the Sabbath starting at sundown on Friday, call their local religious leader Rabbi, keep kosher, circumcise their children as a religious custom, and observe all of the traditional Jewish holidays, join your little church without changing their beliefs or customs?

I'm not Jim, Ron, but for what's it's worth here's my opinion.....why would the above quoted Jews WANT to join a Christian felllowship that didn't uphold what they felt was important? It's not a question of if the church would let them join, but why would they want to unless they were willing to change their traditions?

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by suzanne:
I'm not Jim, Ron, but for what's it's worth here's my opinion.....why would the above quoted Jews WANT to join a Christian felllowship that didn't uphold what they felt was important? It's not a question of if the church would let them join, but why would they want to unless they were willing to change their traditions?

I addressed Jim for a specific reason. His purpose in starting the thread, as I understand it, was to discredit the Catholic Church by claiming that Jews were excluded from a Church Council.

My question to him was to prompt him to consider why such persons would be excluded, if in fact they were.

Further, if such exclusion proves a "gospel of the wolves", would a similar exclusion from his church also prove a "gospel of the wolves"?

While your question of 'why would they want to join' may be vaild in another context, it is not relevant to Jim's topic as originally stated.

Ron

[ September 13, 2002, 10:31 AM: Message edited by: trying2understand ]

 

[jimraboin]

Hi Suzanne,

Whose traditions were passed down that are so important? Early fathers? Or the believing apostles from Israel? Important distinction.

Jim

 

[jimraboin]

Hi Ron,

You associate God's Body of called out ones institutionally. I don't. Institutions only serve to divide. The Body is far more than any or all institutions combined. And that Body has its foundation within Israel's revelation during Old Testament era. Something you reject fully if you accept Catholic vain imaginations.

Jim

 

[trying2understand]

Originally posted by jimraboin:
Hi Ron,

You associate God's Body of called out ones institutionally. I don't. Institutions only serve to divide. The Body is far more than any or all institutions combined. And that Body has its foundation within Israel's revelation during Old Testament era. Something you reject fully if you accept Catholic vain imaginations.

Jim

Jim, why do you not answer my specific questions? They are directly related to your original premise.

You said to jot down "others surpressed in silence" but have not acknowledged that your understanding of those words was completely wrong.

You set up the premise that by not including Jews to the Council, that proved that it was preaching a "Gospel of the Wolves" but you have not said whether your church would include such Jews or not.

You judged the "spirit" of the Church based on a few words critical of Jews, but do not appear to have looked at the words of Phelps (a contemporary Baptist pastor) and applied an equal standard to his gospel.

Why start these threads if you are not going to address the issues?

Now instead you are changing the subject to something about the "called out body" and institutions.

Let's get back to your original post and my responses to it.

Ron