Featured Gospel regeneration

Thanks for the civil and bible-backed debate.

Abram and Paul spoke directly with God with Him speaking an audible voice. None of us can make that claim, so their experience was different than ours, in my opinion. Cornelius(although I already addressed him), Lydia, and Apollos were occurrences that happened in a time of transition. Many were baptized with John's baptism, which was a baptism unto repentance. His baptism was to make ready a peoples for Christ. So, even though they had been baptized, they had not gotten the full 'thrust' of the Spirit. Their baptism was still under the Law. Those who Paul laid hands on received the Holy Spirit, not for the initial time, but His fullness that you and I received the very moment we were saved. During the days of Acts, you had people possessed with evil spirits(I am not saying people are not still possessed by them) who wreaked havoc of the peoples of God. Then there was Simon in Acts 8 who Now for some time a man named Simon had practiced sorcery in the city and amazed all the people of Samaria. He boasted that he was someone great, and all the people, both high and low, gave him their attention and exclaimed, “This man is rightly called the Great Power of God.” They followed him because he had amazed them for a long time with his sorcery. But when they believed Philip as he proclaimed the good news of the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Simon himself believed and was baptized. And he followed Philip everywhere, astonished by the great signs and miracles he saw. When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Samaria had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to Samaria. When they arrived, they prayed for the new believers there that they might receive the Holy Spirit, because the Holy Spirit had not yet come on any of them; they had simply been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then Peter and John placed their hands on them, and they received the Holy Spirit. When Simon saw that the Spirit was given at the laying on of the apostles’ hands, he offered them money and said, “Give me also this ability so that everyone on whom I lay my hands may receive the Holy Spirit.” Peter answered: “May your money perish with you, because you thought you could buy the gift of God with money! You have no part or share in this ministry, because your heart is not right before God. Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart. For I see that you are full of bitterness and captive to sin.” Then Simon answered, “Pray to the Lord for me so that nothing you have said may happen to me.”[vss. 9-24] Simon believed and was baptized, but according to this passage, none of them had received the Spirit yet. Personally, I think they had the indwelling of the Spirit, but when the Apostles laid hands on them, they got Him in His plentiude. It was after the Apostles laid their hands on them they received Him. This does not happen now. Then there was Eutychus who fell three stories and Paul brought him back to life. Peter then laid hands on Tabitha(Dorcas) and she came back to life.

John Calvin gives a rather good commentary on Acts 8:16:

http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/calvin/cc36/cc36069.htm

These two spoke directly to God. Abram was a picture, a type of Christ, and later became Abraham, a 'father of many nations'. John the Baptist came to prepare a peoples for Christ, and none of us today can make that claim. I am not saying you or anyone else on here are espousing that, just stating a fact.

Yes. That is what I am saying. But God does this via the gospel, the word of God. We are For you have been born again, not of perishable seed, but of imperishable, through the living and enduring word of God.[1 Pet. 1:23] No one will be quickened in a place where God has not made His Son manifest unto them. Quickening is done by God, yes, but via His word.

I had to saw this in half. It was too long.

 

I really can not say I disagree with you here. It is just that I do not think one is quickened in today's time as Abram & John the Baptist were. I still think David's 22nd Psalms is pointing to Christ. But I am sure we will be at an impasse here. I do not think God quickens anyone outside the gospel. I think regeneration and conversion happen at the same time. But I am not God, so I do not know if He does or not. It is what I glean from the bible as I study it.

We are saved by grace through faith and justified by faith. This I am quite sure we agree on. We are justified by faith in His blood, which is the same as faith in Christ, Christ being our Pioneer and Perfector of our faith.

Let me break this down to the 'brass tax' my beliefs on this subject. Our posts are getting quite lengthy. :laugh: A sinner hears the preaching of the gospel. Left in his fallen state, he does not and can not respond. God then quickens this sinner to life while the gospel is preached. These words now come to life because God has quickened him and these words are now Spirit and life. This is how I see it.

Both justified by faith and justified by His blood are coming from the same Source, Christ.

 

We don't agree ! You are unstable in what you believe, I don't believe in Gospel regeneration, you do ! How can you say that you don't believe that the Gospel gives life, when you at the same time teach that God regenerates by the Gospel?

 

Hmmmph, you a soothsayer?

You REALLY need to look at your reflection.

Poor you.

Yes I do.

God does this via means, and those means are the gospel. You can believe whatever you choose to. Good day sir.

 

You see that folks, we dont believe the same after all, but i already knew that, and stated that !

 

So the Gospel is of no value?

 

bj

Do you also believe as i do,that the Elect were legally Justified by the Blood before the foundation, since in Purpose Christ was slain before the foundation 1 Pet 1:20

20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,

Rev 13:8

8 And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world.

 

bj

I am sorry to hear that, for I consider it a basic fundamental Gospel Doctrine 2 Tim 1:9-10

Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began,

10 But is now made manifest by the appearing of our Saviour Jesus Christ, who hath abolished death, and hath brought life and immortality to light through the gospel:

That Grace given to the Elect in Christ Jesus before the World began, Justified them Titus 3:7

7 That being justified by his grace, we should be made heirs according to the hope of eternal life.

 

bj

They were already Justified from their fall in Adam, before they fell ! With your logic, Christ had no need to be slain from the foundation since they had not yet sinned ! The elect stood in need of Justification when they created in Adam, it just was not yet known by Adam then ,but he found out about it after he sinned !

 

Good sir, I kindly ask you to not engage with me from this point further. I seek no further communcation with you, nor you with I. I have been civil with you, but not you with I.

You do not seek Godly discussions, just to parlay your thoughts and disparage those who disagree with you. Good day sir.

 

No problem, you are double minded in your belief!

 

Brother Joseph,


I will post this and then I am done in this thread. It is apparent that there is one who is hindering this thread.

Faith, when given, is exercised. Now, if God regenerates someone outside the gospel, without knowing Jesus existed at the time they were regenerated, how can they use that to believe?

Paul stated plainly How, then, can they call on the one they have not believed in? And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? And how can they hear without someone preaching to them?[Rom. 10:14]

And how can they believe in the one of whom they have not heard? Belief is faith. When God quickens, He also gives faith and repentance. If Abu in deepest, darkest Africa has never heard about Christ, if God quickens him, what does he exercise his faith(given by God,so now it would be his faith) and repentance on? He can not have faith in Him who he has not heard. He can not exercise repentance if he does not know Christ. This is where the gospel is of utmost importance in the conversion of sinners. Yes God regenerates, but when He does, they have to have Someone to repent to and have faith in.

Faith and repentance are never dormant, never idle.

This is why I am pro-gospel regeneration.

I have truly enjoyed our discusion. Good day mon ami.

 

Brother Joseph,

I pray I have not offended you in any of my postings.