• Welcome to Baptist Board, a friendly forum to discuss the Baptist Faith in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to all the features that our community has to offer.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Grace and discipleship

Status
Not open for further replies.
G

gb93433

Active Member
Site Supporter
standingfirminChrist said:
Is it just me, or does anyone else notice HisWordIsTruth cannot answer questions he is asked?
Click to expand...

I am sure he could but is like so many who have an agenda.
 
H

HisWordIsTruth

New Member
No.
Click to expand...
Okay finally we can get to actual discussion on the Scriptures. Now you agreed that there has never been a time in human history that the gospel of everlasting life has "ever" been limited to a certain group of people. It has "always" been open to whosoever will believe.

Now how do you hold to that belief with the understanding that Jesus came "only" for the lost sheep of the house of Israel and to no one else? How do you hold that view knowing that when the 70 were sent out they were sent ONLY to the children of Israel. They didn't even go to the half-breads, and CERTAINLY they didn't go to the Gentiles.

So how do you mesh your belief that the gospel of everlasting life has always been open to everyone with the Scriptural truth that the message Jesus came preaching was to a select audience only and it didn't include the vast majority of the people across the planet. As a matter of fact the vast majority of the planet was excluded from the message?

Does that sound like the gospel of everlasting life?
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
HisWordIsTruth said:
Obviously not Jim. One has to be blind as a bat not to see what you are "really" trying to do :).
Click to expand...


Apparently only you can see it. Please enlighten us as to what I am trying to do?
 
A

Amy.G

New Member
HisWordIsTruth said:
Obviously not Jim. One has to be blind as a bat not to see what you are "really" trying to do :).
Click to expand...
Jim?

Is that your name RevMitchell?

How did you know that HWIT?
 
webdog

webdog

Active Member
Site Supporter
HisWordIsTruth said:
Obviously not Jim. One has to be blind as a bat not to see what you are "really" trying to do :).
Click to expand...
How do you know his name is Jim :confused:

edited...Amy posted this as I was typing...
 
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
HisWordIsTruth said:
I agree wholeheartedly that believe is an aorist, active, imperitive verb, which I believe I stated earlier in this thread. Not sure what you mean by "creedal stance."

When you compare Acts 16:30-31 with Ephesians 2:8-9 you will see that believe in the aorist, active, imperitive is a one-time faith that leads to a saving that is completed in the past with the results of that action carried out into the future.

It's punctilliar action. It's defined with a dot, not a dot and a line as some cases of "believe" are in Scripture.

Therefore since we know that there is a believe that is aorist that leads to a finished action we must understand the present, active, particple believe, which would be defined as a dot and line that leads to a result at the end of the line.

Those two ideas don't "mesh" with each other. They are two different subjects and two different topics.

If you say those two ideas "can" be meshed together how is it that you get there, when one says believe and it's done and the other says you have to continue to believe and the result remains out in the future?
Click to expand...


This is the same argument you used to defend ME when you were under the username jjump:

I don't know. You'll have to ask your husband and MB. They are the ones claiming there is MORE to salvation than just believing not me. I believe Acts 16:30-31 and Ephesians 2:8-9 to be true just as it is penned. Paul by the guidance of the Holy Spirit said believe and you will be saved and I believe that is the ABSOLUTE TRUTH!
Click to expand...


http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1082277#post1082277


You also said it here:

Great Scripture. And I would ask the same question as was asked earlier. So what if they don't continue in the faith. What happens. We have one that has answered that they were never saved in the first place, yet that does appear in Scripture ANYWHERE.

And how do you reconcile this continuance with Acts 16:30-31 and Ephesians 2:8-9 which says that it is a moment in time. Let me go ahead and answer the question. It can not be reconciled. These two views are on opposite ends of the spectrum. You have can't have Scripture saying that it's a moment in time and Scripture saying that it's a lifelong process.

Those two things can not be harmonized as the same thing. It's either or not both.

So contextually you are left with a continuing if faith that doesn't have anything to do with everlasting life because of a contradiction that is placed on Scripture when you try to take an apple and an orange and make them the same piece of fruit. It's impossible and leaves a HUGE mess.
Click to expand...


http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1081866#post1081866
 
Last edited by a moderator:
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
HisWordIsTruth said:
ABSOLUTELY! And what does it say? BELIEVE and you WILL BE SAVED! That's what it SAYS!

No what I have a hard time understanding is why you and others like you either dismiss out of hand what Scripture says are twist it so that "your" doctrine is made to be okay.

Paul said believe on the Lord Jesus and you will be saved. That is the ONLY place in scripture where a person asks the question what they must do in order to be saved. And the answer is given. He didn't not beat around the bush. He meant what he said and said what he meant. He was guarded from error! What was the answer? BELIEVE and you WILL BE SAVED!!!!!!!

All other Scripture must be looked at in Light of what is said here, not at the expense of what is said here.

Your view and Paul's statement WILL NOT/DO NOT coincide. They are directly opposite of each other.

And your point is? Do you think just because the word repentance is found in Scripture that somehow confirms your doctrine?

Absolutely not! We are to live by "every" word that proceeds out of the mouth of God. There is life in those words if we find out what God meant by them, not what "man" means by them!
Click to expand...


Back when you used jjump you said the same thing:

WHOLE POINT MB. Your "theology" places contradiction on Scriptures that simply can not and do not exist. One Scripture says it's immediate and then done with and another Scripture says to have a continual belief. Those by contextual definition CAN NOT be talking about the same thing. It's just that simple.

There's nothing you can do or say to work around that. They are directly opposite of each other and always will be. They don't mesh. Therefore we must understand in context what "each" is talking about, because it's NOT the same thing.
Click to expand...

http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1082257#post1082257

The context in each case is the same passage of scripture.
 
J

Joe

New Member
revmitchell, I don't know if that is proof he is jjump.
I recently cut and pasted two sentences from one of DHK's posts (headcovering thread) b/c I couldn't remember the bible verses and was too lazy to edit it into my own words. Then I placed them into the last abortion thread.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
R

Revmitchell

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
HisWordIsTruth said:
Again this statement is absolutely true! Without faith it is impossible to please God. However there is a one-time believe/faith and then there is a progressive/on-going faith/believe.

You are mixing the two different types. One is for everlasting life and one is for sanctification.

Again context is the key!

Well if that is true then why does Paul make this statement?

Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you completely; and may your whole spirit, soul, and body be preserved blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Those are not "indicitive" verbs meaning certainty, but rather subjunctive verbs meaning possibility. Why would Paul say this is a possibility and his desire if it was a guarantee to happen?


All Christians possess everlasting life, but all possessors of everlasting life are not Christians.

All disciples possess everlasting life, but all possessors of everlasting life are not disciples.

Well I was just repeating your statement :).

Those are "your" words and "not" the words of Scripture. So are we to believe you or Scripture?

I have already given you a text that says "disciples" stopped following Christ, and nowhere does it say they weren't "really saved" or that they lost their salvation. So neither of these two false ideas are taught in Scripture.

Again good works are "commanded" of us. If we were "going" to do good works we wouldn't have to be "commanded" to do them. Again we don't go around commanding each other to breath. Because without outside influences that's exactly what we are going to do whether we're told to or not.
Click to expand...


You said this a jjump here:

Well I wouldn't say they were Jewish Christians as not all saved people throughout history are "Christians."
Click to expand...


http://www.baptistboard.com/showthread.php?p=1081862#post1081862
 
S

standingfirminChrist

New Member
Well, if that is not J. Jump, then he is brainwashed by the same teachers J. Jump was or is.

Initials of church the same as J. Jumps
Statement of Faith the same as 2 other names J. Jump used.
Statements in posts the same as J. Jumps.
Same evasive tactics as J. Jump.
Will not answer direct questions.

Yup, it is J. Jump alright... or his clone.
 
Last edited:
David Lamb

David Lamb

Well-Known Member
standingfirminChrist said:
I haven't.
Click to expand...
Great! That's what I thought. I certainly cannot imagine anyone on the BB suggesting that we preach repentance and nothing else.
standingfirminChrist said:
He must have missed the verse I posted out of Mark 1 that says Jesus preached that people must repent and believe the gospel. Powerful verse.
Click to expand...
And then there is Acts 19.4 (emphasis mine):

Then Paul said, "John indeed baptized with a baptism of repentance, saying to the people that they should believe on Him who would come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus."

​
 
L

Linda64

New Member
The Principle of Contradiction

Since God is immutable, He must be consistent in the revelation of Himself and in the revelation of truth. Any conclusive concept or idea that is contradictory to another concept or idea must be rejected as in error or a misinterpretation because God is consistent in Truth (I John 2:21, II Timothy 2:13 and Titus 1:2). Since all Truth interrelates, all systematizing of Truth must be congruous (in harmony). Every book of the Bible is part of a choir of Truth singing in perfect harmony. True exegesis does not involve itself in a lot of mental gymnastics and contortionism trying to make the Truths of God’s Word harmonious. This is merely wresting the Scriptures (II Peter 3:16).

http://disciplemakerministries.org/Pages/Dispensationalism/Principles.htm
Click to expand...
Therefore, Acts 16:30-31, Ephesians 2:8-10, and Romans 10:9-10 are speaking of the SAME thing....eternal salvation. Trying to interpret these verses as two different salvations is simply "wresting the Scriptures" to your own destruction (II Peter 3:16).
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top