Grace: potential or actual

[Aaron]

Adam was creasted without a sin nature by God though, and he had the free will from god to make the choice...

he sinned, than received a sinner nature, becoming spiritually a dead person....

Does sin procede from a pure heart, or a corrupt heart?

 

[Van]

When Adam was created He had his nature, which was able, had the capacity to sin. After Adam sinned, his nature was corrupted when his "eyes were opened." Thus our "old man" nature is the same corrupted nature of the fallen Adam. So a pure heart can sin, but a corrupted heart has a hard time not sinning.

 

[Aaron]

Not at all. For anyone willing to listen, God will reveal more of Himself. For those who have hardened their hearts against Him, He will take away even what they know of Him.

That's not what it says. It says to one group it is given to know certain things, and to another it is not given. One group is given a gift, the other is not. You say it's because one group has behaved better than the other, and therefore merited it. God always and ever says one is given something because of election, and not because one has done either good or evil.

 

[Aaron]

When Adam was created He had his nature, which was able, had the capacity to sin. After Adam sinned, his nature was corrupted when his "eyes were opened." Thus our "old man" nature is the same corrupted nature of the fallen Adam

So the choice to sin isn't from a corrupt heart? That choice comes from a free and pure heart, and only AFTER the sin is committed one's heart is corrupted?

That's not what Christ said.

 

[Aaron]

If you are talking after him being corrupted because he sinned then I agree. However the post sounded like you were saying that Adam had no choice but to eat (sin) and that would be false.

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Adam was created good, but not incorruptible. Corruption had to set in before he would entertain a disobedient thought.

 

[JesusFan]

Does sin procede from a pure heart, or a corrupt heart?

From the heart of a being, either Adam/satan, who were created wi/o sin natures in them, innocent, both willfully chose to diobey and rebel against their Creator!

 

[freeatlast]

Does sin procede from a pure heart,

It did in satan so it can in man also.
Eze 28:13-15
Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone [was] thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond, the beryl, the onyx, and the jasper, the sapphire, the emerald, and the carbuncle, and gold: the workmanship of thy tabrets and of thy pipes was prepared in thee in the day that thou wast created.

Thou [art] the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee [so]: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire.

Thou [wast] perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee.

 

[freeatlast]

A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Adam was created good, but not incorruptible. Corruption had to set in before he would entertain a disobedient thought.

You are assuming. Even so how can corruption set in when the heart is pure?

 

[Aaron]

Do not be deceived, evil communications corrupt good manners.

 

[quantumfaith]

What precisely set in this "corruption"?

 

[Aaron]

From the heart of a being, either Adam/satan, who were created wi/o sin natures in them, innocent, both willfully chose to diobey and rebel against their Creator!

Sorry. Christ said a good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit. Corruption had to set in.

 

[Aaron]

What precisely set in this "corruption"?

One thing at a time. Adam's sin was either the fruit of a corrupt root, or it was the fruit of a whole, pure and good root. Which was it?

 

[quantumfaith]

One thing at a time. Adam's sin was either the fruit of a corrupt root, or it was the fruit of a whole, pure and good root. Which was it?

I don't know the answer to that, I am curious as to the "root" of this corruption which is being spoken of.

 

[quantumfaith]

If I were to answer, I would say that Adam was "good" but was not "perfect". He was innocent, but not without the potential to rebel (sin). It appears that all created beings were endowed by these properties. (Angels and Humans)

 

[freeatlast]

What precisely set in this "corruption"?

Exactly! :thumbsup:

 

[Aaron]

If I were to answer, I would say that Adam was "good" but was not "perfect". He was innocent, but not without the potential to rebel (sin). It appears that all created beings were endowed by these properties. (Angels and Humans)

He was made good and perfect, but not incorruptible. Corruption is a passive thing, like rust on iron. It's something that happens. We can answer what corrupted Adam later. The question was, did Adam's sin come from a good and pure heart, or one that had been corrupted?

 

[freeatlast]

He was made good and perfect, but not incorruptible. Corruption is a passive thing, like rust on iron. It's something that happens. We can answer what corrupted Adam later. The question was, did Adam's sin come from a good and pure heart, or one that had been corrupted?

The heart was pure at creation and Adam chose to corrupt it.

 

[Aaron]

So, sin springs from a pure heart, not a corrupt one.

 

[Amy.G]

He was made good and perfect, but not incorruptible. Corruption is a passive thing, like rust on iron. It's something that happens. We can answer what corrupted Adam later. The question was, did Adam's sin come from a good and pure heart, or one that had been corrupted?

If Adam's heart was corrupted before he sinned, wouldn't that mean that the fall happened before he sinned? Are you saying he was unsaved before he sinned? When did he fall? Before or after he sinned against God?

 

[Amy.G]

Adam could no more prevent his own corruption than iron can prevent its own rust. Once he was introduced to a lie, it was over.

So Adam had no choice? He had to sin? Who made him sin if indeed he had no choice?