Greg Gilbert - Against Music

[lbaker]

Sometimes I imagine myself in about 30 years, in a creaky old man voice - "Why don't we ever sing any of them good old 3rd Day songs anymore?"

 

[Amy.G]

Sometimes I imagine myself in about 30 years, in a creaky old man voice - "Why don't we ever sing any of them good old 3rd Day songs anymore?"

:laugh: I've imagined that myself.

Of course, in 30 years I probably won't even be able to hear the music. :laugh:

 

[Andy T.]

Luther used bar tunes in many of his hymns, including "A Mighty Fortress is Our God" in order to get the congregation singing along, yes drinking bar tunes.

Will this urban legend ever die?

 

[Sopranette]

Here we go again. And why is this in the General Board?
Okay, as a woman, I don't get to praise out loud except in song. And nothing speaks my love for God like those old timey hymns. I don't like CCM. There, I said it. It lacks the language, the focus, it lacks the God worship (lots of first person experience in CCM), it sounds too much like pop music or lite rock on the radio, very repetetive. And have you seen the performers? Nothing reaches into my heart and pulls out my innermost love for God like classic hymns. There is very little history in CCM. And there is no challenge in CCM songs. So, go ahead and condemn me. The classic hymns are slowly slipping away...I've seen that happen first hand. People forget, they are always looking for the newest, hipest thing.

love,

Sopranette

 

[cowboymatt]

Is it just me who finds it ironic and refreshing that some of the best CCM songs are actually either new hymns (In Christ Alone, etc) or are renditions of old hymns?

 

[Sopranette]

Is it just me who finds it ironic and refreshing that some of the best CCM songs are actually either new hymns (In Christ Alone, etc) or are renditions of old hymns?

No, those are at least tolerable to me.

Maybe this should be under," Music Snobs"?:laugh:

love,

Sopranette

 

[tinytim]

Here we go again. And why is this in the General Board?
Okay, as a woman, I don't get to praise out loud except in song. And nothing speaks my love for God like those old timey hymns. I don't like CCM. There, I said it. It lacks the language, the focus, it lacks the God worship (lots of first person experience in CCM), it sounds too much like pop music or lite rock on the radio, very repetetive. And have you seen the performers? Nothing reaches into my heart and pulls out my innermost love for God like classic hymns. There is very little history in CCM. And there is no challenge in CCM songs. So, go ahead and condemn me. The classic hymns are slowly slipping away...I've seen that happen first hand. People forget, they are always looking for the newest, hipest thing.

love,
Sopranette

Now that sounds snobbish...
NO challenge in CCM?... Have your read the lyrics to "If we are the Body"?
It lacks language? What?
It lacks focus... That is your problem, not the music's
It doesn't have God Worship? uh... Above All, Who am I, How Great is our God....
And what is wrong with the performer's looks?

And what is with the phrase that you don't get to praise out loud? Does your church treat women like the Taliban? Are you saying that women are not allowed to praise God outloud in your church? Are your women not equal to men?

You are a classic example of what this article is about...
If you can't worship in any style of music, then the problem is with you...
Don't paint so broad next time. I, for one, find this argument that you put forth is divisive, and lacks information.. It sounds like you are parroting other CCM music snobs...

 

[lbaker]

Here we go again. And why is this in the General Board?
Okay, as a woman, I don't get to praise out loud except in song. And nothing speaks my love for God like those old timey hymns. I don't like CCM. There, I said it. It lacks the language, the focus, it lacks the God worship (lots of first person experience in CCM), it sounds too much like pop music or lite rock on the radio, very repetetive. And have you seen the performers? Nothing reaches into my heart and pulls out my innermost love for God like classic hymns. There is very little history in CCM. And there is no challenge in CCM songs. So, go ahead and condemn me. The classic hymns are slowly slipping away...I've seen that happen first hand. People forget, they are always looking for the newest, hipest thing.

love,

Sopranette

And that is all just fine with me. It doesn't bother me if you don't like CCM, just don't try and force me to prefer the hymns. There is room enough for both tastes, IMHO.

Actually, I do enjoy an occasional old, really old, hymn sung simply acapella and the updated versions of some of the classics are cool too, like the cd JOC put out a couple years back.

 

[Sopranette]

*sigh* We've had this debate many, many times, Tim.
I follow the commandment stated in Corinthians. Women keep silent in church, except in song.
The look of many CCM musicians mimics those of rock stars. Are we not to be seperate?
Today's english is lacking, and that is reflected in today's songs. Shallow.
And comparing Christian men to the Taliban is the height of insult.
I stated my preference. That is just as valid as yours. In America, at least.

love,

Sopranette

 

[tinytim]

Yes your opinion is just as valid as mine, and I would never suggest that you would have to listen to CCM to be holy...

But don't misrepresent CCM to prove your opinion...

I like you, but I totally disagree with your assessment of CCM.

 

[Sopranette]

I like you, too, brother Tim :1_grouphug: and it's okay to agree to disagree.

love,

Sopranette

 

[tinytim]

BTW, I am a music snob too....

I hate twangy bluegrass music.. especially banjos....

But that is the other thread!!!

Hugs!

 

[nodak]

Interestingly enough, this topic came up in live conversation last night. The basic assertion being made was this:

Those that would leave a church because the music is CCM are being divisive, persnickity, and making a mountain out of a molehill.

Those that would leave a church because the music is all old hymns are justified. Their musical needs and tastes are being ignored, so they are not comfortable there.

Hmmm--I think the knife cuts both ways here.

 

[christianyouth]

Wow, I had no idea the discussion would spin off to this.

 

[tinytim]

Interestingly enough, this topic came up in live conversation last night. The basic assertion being made was this:

Those that would leave a church because the music is CCM are being divisive, persnickity, and making a mountain out of a molehill.

Those that would leave a church because the music is all old hymns are justified. Their musical needs and tastes are being ignored, so they are not comfortable there.

Hmmm--I think the knife cuts both ways here.

Exactly.. stay where God puts you.

 

[Sopranette]

Wow, I had no idea the discussion would spin off to this.

People never fail to amaze me. Shock, yes, but suprise, no, not any more. People are a never ending source of intrest to me.

love,

Sopranette

 

[Trotter]

One problem today is that there is so much good music out there. I know better than to say it is all good, but there's a lot of it still. Anyone can go all the way back to the late 1800's and hear music, and can pick and choose from it all.

"Today's" music is electrical guitars, bass, drums, maybe a keyboard. These are mixed with driving rythyms and lyrics for a totally different experience than that of, say, the 1930's. The youth of today have this music with them all the time through the use of radio, cd players, and MP3 players. So when they walk into a church that has an organ, maybe a piano, singing songs from the 1950's or earlier... at a slow pace... with mediocre talent at best (whole congregation)... we wonder why their eyes glaze over and they zone out.

Does the blame lie on the music of today? Or on the youth? Or on the older songs? Or on the church? My answer is, "Yes." All of these contribute to the problem, but harping on just one won't change diddly.

There are two facts that aren't going to change... Today's music will always be today's music. It may change over time, but it will always be what is being listened to by 99% of the youth, like it or not. The other fact is that the old songs will always be the old songs, and they will only get older.

The result of these two facts is that the old songs are not and will never equate to today's music. An organ and piano will not, cannot, be an electric guitar/bass/drums.

So, where do we go from here? Good question. Many of us older folk would run screaming out of the doors if CCM were used in worship (I would not be among the number, though ). And our youth zone out on organ-played hymns that have Sister Lulu singing three ocatives too high. But there can be some middle ground, if people are willing.

My church uses this. We use the hymnal for congregational songs. The choir uses their own songbook for most songs, and these range from classics to Casting Crowns. We have a piano and organ, but we also have a bass, a couple of guitars playing background rythym, and an occasional steel guitar and/or lap guitar. We're not contemporary by no means, but we aren't stuck in the 50's either.

 

[Sopranette]

Then why not update classic hymns? Use drums, guitars, etc. on old favorites? Isn't that a reasonable solution? It's really irritating to me to read that we should have to entertain the congregation, and not focus on worshiping God. So what if the "talent" is mediocre. You get what you pay for, which is usually zip in a lot of cases. And if the congregation is bored, I very much doubt the music is soley to blame, as the music shouldn't be the reason why people go to church in the first place.

love,

Sopranette

 

[sag38]

I agree with Milred Minatrea in his book Shaped by God's Heart: The Passion and Practices of Missional Churches. The quote starts on page 68 and ends at the top of 69. "Today, battles are being waged over the propriety of changing traditions in worship. Enormous energy is invested in advocating for particular forms of worship. Churches debate the use of traditional hymns and contemporary praise choruses, formality or informality. Ultimately, such debate may reveal the egocentric perception of worship held by those involved. These worship wars are a vivid evidence of focus on the "consumer" rather than the One who inhabits praise. In the long history of worship, God has been pleased to accept diverse expressions, so long as those involved in worship are singularly focused upon Him."

 

[Joshua Rhodes]

Worship is more than the music people. It includes the music, yes, but it is so much more. It's our response and offering to God. Not entertainment, not "good ol' fashioned" memories, not hype, not boredom. What crackles me sometimes is that everyone, yes I said EVERYONE, gets selfish about the music in the church. What would God like to hear, since it is for Him and His honor?