Habakkuk

[Yeshua1]

The passage is Habakkuk calling out on God and appealing on God's nature that He does not condone sin.

This describes the nature of God - Father, Son, and Spirit. God does not condone sin, so we can rely on and appeal to the fact God is righteous and is working out everything for good, for His purposes and His purposes are righteous.

Sometimes Christians confuse the passage to mean the Father cannot look on sin but the Son can or that the Father turned His back on Christ (which is heresy and by definition blasphemy as it denies this divine nature to Christ).

So when scriptures quoted by Jesus states plainly the Father forsook Him at that time is heresy?

 

[Yeshua1]

Yep! Good study. Obviously (see my post #3) God is not literally unable to see evil. If He were He would not be God. Yet the verse means something. It means that God cannot look upon sin and wickedness with complaisance or equanimity.

We are told in the Bible that there are indeed certain things that God cannot do. He cannot, for example, lie (Titus 1:2). Nor, according to 2 Timothy 2:13, can He deny Himself. He is an utterly holy God, and His anger against sin and those who commit it is both righteous and constant (Psalms 7:11). He will and must (to be true to Himself) bring judgement on those who commit sin. This judgement certainly includes eternal separation from God (e.g. Luke 13:27; 2 Thessalonians 1:9).

But how can God be holy and righteous and yet pardon guilty sinners? Way back in the 4th Century, Athanasius, in his book On the Incarnation,supposed that this placed God in something of a dilemma, solved by the sacrifice of Himself in the place of guilty sinners to pay the penalty due in full.

That ole Penal Substitution that seems some in todays church have big problems with!

 

[JonC]

JonC - you are referring to Martin but without quoting anything Martin has said - only making statements about Martin without foundation in this thread. You need reporting to another moderator.

Jon, it's the sort of argument that goes along the lines -
"You belief THAT - you therefore believe what follows according to MY logic. Therefore you are a heretic."

We need to listen to what others SAY, not what WE HEAR, with our prejudiced hearing.

I am referencing a topic that he brought up in another thread. That is not contrary to BB rules.

 

[Yeshua1]

JonC - you are referring to Martin but without quoting anything Martin has said - only making statements about Martin without foundation in this thread. You need reporting to another moderator.

Jon, it's the sort of argument that goes along the lines -
"You belief THAT - you therefore believe what follows according to MY logic. Therefore you are a heretic."

We need to listen to what others SAY, not what WE HEAR, with our prejudiced hearing.

Problem is that we all have certain understandings of what scriptures teach, but we cannot label heretic someone just because they have a different understanding of they passage!
of course, as long as ones understanding still within orthodoxy!

 

[JonC]

So when scriptures quoted by Jesus states plainly the Father forsook Him at that time is heresy?

No. I am not talking about "forsook".

I am taking about Jesus being God. Of course Jesus was forsaken to the cross. We all know that God delivered Christ from the grave - NOT from the cross.

But this does not mean Jesus had a less than divine nature. This does not mean that Jesus could condone sin while God could not. That is what I am saying is heresy. It is contrary to orthodox Christianity.

 

[Yeshua1]

I am referencing a topic that he brought up in another thread. That is not contrary to BB rules.

My argument is that the Father, Son, and Spirit have the same divine nature. To deny this is heresy. I am not accusing anyone of anything.

To present Christ as having a less than divine nature is heresy. Traditionally Christ is fully God and fully man (no mixture, not less than one or less than another).

Jesus being forsook by the Father as being the Sin bearer is not supporting Jesus being less than God, or not fully man!

 

[Yeshua1]

No. I am not talking about "forsook".

I am taking about Jesus being God. Of course Jesus was forsaken to the cross. We all know that God delivered Christ from the grave - NOT from the cross.

But this does not mean Jesus had a less than divine nature. This does not mean that Jesus could condone sin while God could not. That is what I am saying is heresy. It is contrary to orthodox Christianity.

Where did MM state that Jesus was not fully divine?

 

[Covenanter]

I am referencing a topic that he brought up in another thread. That is not contrary to BB rules.

My argument is that the Father, Son, and Spirit have the same divine nature. To deny this is heresy. I am not accusing anyone of anything.

To present Christ as having a less than divine nature is heresy. Traditionally Christ is fully God and fully man (no mixture, not less than one or less than another).

You need to quote WHAT HE ACTUALLY WROTE - not your own argument against YOUR OWN inference.

 

[Covenanter]

We need to read, understand and learn the MESSAGE of Habakkuk, and sing with him through our time of trouble.

I wrote a hymn based on Habakkuk's prayer/song for a sermon on the whole prophecy.

God above, we have heard
of your works in your Word,
now revive in our day
works of gospel power
in this needy hour.
In your wrath O Lord,
In your wrath O Lord,
In your wrath, yet in grace,
Lord remember mercy.

Read & hear it hear on the music thread.

 

[George Antonios]

Waste of time of a thread.

 

[Covenanter]

Hi agedman, are you satisfied with the Biblical answers provided? Are there further questions you wish to raise?

In a different thread Habakkuk 1 was offered as proof that God cannot look upon sin being taken upon by the Son.

Such is foolishness and far beneath proper understanding.

I place in this thread for all to see that even Habakkuk does admit God certainly looks upon the sin and sinner, far more the beloved Son.

12Are you not from everlasting,
O LORD my God, my Holy One?
We shall not die.
O LORD, you have ordained them as a judgment,
and you, O Rock, have established them for reproof.
13You who are of purer eyes than to see evil
and cannot look at wrong,
why do you idly look at traitors
and remain silent when the wicked swallows up
the man more righteous than he?
​

This is not a statement, it is a question!!! It is not God’s statement, but the prophet plea.
The fact is God does certainly look upon the sinner. The Scripture pages are full of such interactions.

Look at the authority of God Habakkuk acknowledges in this next portion.

14You make mankind like the fish of the sea,
like crawling things that have no ruler.
15He brings all of them up with a hook;
he drags them out with his net;
he gathers them in his dragnet;
so he rejoices and is glad.
16Therefore he sacrifices to his net
and makes offerings to his dragnet;
for by them he lives in luxury,
and his food is rich.
17Is he then to keep on emptying his net
and mercilessly killing nations forever?

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