Hal Lindsey a False Prophet?

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
It is very clear that Lindsey is a false prophet. This is clearly and easily demonstrated by his failed predictions.

Joseph Botwinick

Prophecy--prediction?? Prophecy--prediction??! Prophecy--prediction!! Just checking. Okay, they are different words with different meanings in English, just as they are in Japanese. So, Joseph, shall we call him a "false predictor" rather than a "false prophet?" It's much nicer, and better yet, much more accurate and Biblical.

Ol' Jack Van Impe made many false predictions back in the day. My wife and her friends were scared to death in college by Van Impe's prediction that the Communists would take over on July 4, 1776. HAH!!! HAR DE HAR HAR!!

 

[Me4Him]

I wonder how many of you know there are "THREE PROPHECIES" that "FOCUS" on "THIS GENERATION" as being the "LAST"???

1. Six days
2. In three days
3. This Generation, (parable of fig tree, Her branch)

Hal's mistake was assuming 40 years equaled a "Generation", 1948-1988=40 years, it doesn't, 70 years are a generation.

1. God said he would only let man work 6 days=1000 years, the seventh, the MK.

2. Jesus, born crucified, in the evening of the 4th day, makes his promise to be "RESURRECTED" (back on earth) in three days, "LITERALLY TRUE",

the 5th, 6th are the two days (1000 years) early in the morning of the "THIRD DAY" corresponds to the prophecy of "HER BRANCH" not passing until all fulfilled.

The parables of the fig trees, "His Branch" (Jesus) "Her Branch" (Israel) both say the same about each generation, neither will pass until all be fulfilled.

All three of the above prophecies focus on the generation of "HER BRANCH", if one fails, they all fail.

1948+70=2018, or before

His branch was the destruction of the nation of Israel,

Her branch is the restoration of the nation of Israel, (valley of bones, Eze 37)

"TWO WITNESSES" are all that's needed to "Establish the matter", but in this case there are 5 witnesses,

1. six days (1000 years) of work, another day of rest, MK.
2. Jesus's promise to be resurrected, (back on earth) early in the morning of third day. (7th day)
3. His branch
4. Her branch
5. Lu 21:29 And he spake to them a parable; Behold the fig tree, and all the trees; (his/her)

30 When they now shoot forth, ye see and know of your own selves that summer is now nigh at hand.

31 So likewise ye, when ye see these things come to pass, know ye that the kingdom of God is nigh at hand.

32 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

I don't think very many people "REALLY" understood Hal's book, even today, I'll let you calculate the odds of all these prophecies "failing".


These are explained here:

http://www.baptistboard.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php/topic/28/3398.html

 

[Helen]

I think if false prophets were stoned today (and I am NOT advocating that!), Lindsay and others would be a WHOLE lot more careful about some of the things they say! After all, one would not want to be mistaken for a false prophet even if one was only a false predictor...

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Helen great point

 

[saturneptune]

To me, the first sign of a false prophet is he who claims to know whether another individual is saved or not, other than him or herself of course.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Originally posted by John of Japan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
It is very clear that Lindsey is a false prophet. This is clearly and easily demonstrated by his failed predictions.

Joseph Botwinick

Prophecy--prediction?? Prophecy--prediction??! Prophecy--prediction!! Just checking. Okay, they are different words with different meanings in English, just as they are in Japanese. So, Joseph, shall we call him a "false predictor" rather than a "false prophet?" It's much nicer, and better yet, much more accurate and Biblical.

Ol' Jack Van Impe made many false predictions back in the day. My wife and her friends were scared to death in college by Van Impe's prediction that the Communists would take over on July 4, 1776. HAH!!! HAR DE HAR HAR!!

</font>[/QUOTE]Hi John,

You make a good point that the sole definition of a prophet is not just one who makes predicitons, but primarily one who proclaims the Word from the Lord. Thus, when many prophets speak in the Old Testament, they very often begin with a phrase much like this: "Thus saith the Lord of Host". Many times, however, God will also tell the future of what will happen due to the disobedience or even the due to the obedience of the audience. Therefore, the word "Prophet" can mean one who merely proclaims the Words of the Lord to the people, or one who tells the future (if my memory of my Old Testament class and Hebrew class serve me right, there is actually two different words for prophet in Hebrew).

But, I think it is clear that the Bible speaks of false prophets as false predictors, which is why I call Hal Lindsey a false prophet. Please read the following scripture and see what you think:

21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Deuteronomy 18:21-22

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Grasshopper]

Hal's mistake was assuming 40 years equaled a "Generation",

No, that is the correct assumption. His mistake was taking it out of it's 1st century context.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Helen:
I think if false prophets were stoned today (and I am NOT advocating that!), Lindsay and others would be a WHOLE lot more careful about some of the things they say! After all, one would not want to be mistaken for a false prophet even if one was only a false predictor...

"TRUTH" can't be judged by one's "knowledge", that varies from person to person.

"Every" prophet sent by God has been "Condemned" and in most cases, "Murdered" by the General population, including Jesus.

When the "world" condemn you, you know you're on the right track.

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

When the Church points out and rebukes you false prophecies, as has happened with Hal, you know you're on the wrong track.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Grasshopper:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Hal's mistake was assuming 40 years equaled a "Generation",

No, that is the correct assumption. His mistake was taking it out of it's 1st century context. </font>[/QUOTE]His mistake was not tying the two parables of the fig trees "together", the interpretation of one is the interpretation of the other, Luke makes that "Clear".

If there's to be six days, and Israel's restoration as a nation the "last generation", then Israel can only be restored as a nation "WITHIN" a Generation of the end of the six days, 1948 is well within that time frame, and it's a question Jesus refused to answer for the disciples.

Ac 1:6 When they therefore were come together, they asked of him, saying, Lord, wilt thou at this time restore again the kingdom to Israel?

7 And he said unto them, It is not for you to know the times or the seasons,

Just as Daniel's book was to be sealed/closed until the "time of the end", Jesus said he would "give meat" (understanding) when the "season was due".

Mt 24:44 Therefore be ye also ready: for in such an hour as ye think not the Son of man cometh.

45 Who then is a faithful and wise servant, whom his lord hath made ruler over his household, to give them meat in due season?

1Co 3:2 I have fed you with milk, and not with meat: for hitherto ye were not able to bear it,

Heb 5:13 For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness:

Heb 5:12 For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
When the Church points out and rebukes you false prophecies, as has happened with Hal, you know you're on the wrong track.

Joseph Botwinick

I'm in "good company" of those condemned before, as I said on another thread, the "proof" will come at the "worse possible time", when we're standing in front of "THE MAN".

 

[John of Japan]

Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by John of Japan:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Joseph_Botwinick:
It is very clear that Lindsey is a false prophet. This is clearly and easily demonstrated by his failed predictions.

Joseph Botwinick

Prophecy--prediction?? Prophecy--prediction??! Prophecy--prediction!! Just checking. Okay, they are different words with different meanings in English, just as they are in Japanese. So, Joseph, shall we call him a "false predictor" rather than a "false prophet?" It's much nicer, and better yet, much more accurate and Biblical.

Ol' Jack Van Impe made many false predictions back in the day. My wife and her friends were scared to death in college by Van Impe's prediction that the Communists would take over on July 4, 1776. HAH!!! HAR DE HAR HAR!!

</font>[/QUOTE]Hi John,

You make a good point that the sole definition of a prophet is not just one who makes predicitons, but primarily one who proclaims the Word from the Lord. Thus, when many prophets speak in the Old Testament, they very often begin with a phrase much like this: "Thus saith the Lord of Host". Many times, however, God will also tell the future of what will happen due to the disobedience or even the due to the obedience of the audience. Therefore, the word "Prophet" can mean one who merely proclaims the Words of the Lord to the people, or one who tells the future (if my memory of my Old Testament class and Hebrew class serve me right, there is actually two different words for prophet in Hebrew).

But, I think it is clear that the Bible speaks of false prophets as false predictors, which is why I call Hal Lindsey a false prophet. Please read the following scripture and see what you think:

21 You may say to yourselves, "How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?" 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.

Deuteronomy 18:21-22

Joseph Botwinick </font>[/QUOTE]I'm not sure where you are coming from, Joseph. I don't see simple prediction in this passage, like what most prophecy preachers do. Maybe I'm missing something for not knowing Hal Lindsey's ministry in his recent years. However, from what I remember he never used to claim to be a prophet or to speak in the name of the Lord, ala the Charismatic prophets, which is what this passage is condemning, to me. Am I wrong? Has he changed?

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

I believe when he started predicting when Jesus would return and when the end of the world would be, he became a false prophet. Therefore, I don't listen to anything he has to say.

Joseph Botwinick

 

[John of Japan]

But they were predictions, right? To me that is still a different matter than prophecies--though I need to go back and look at the Hebrew, as you have mentioned. In Japanese, the original Bible translators coined a word to mean "prophecy" in the Biblical sense, over against "prediction," a word which already existed. The Japanese word for Biblical prophecy means, "receiving in charge a word." I love it!

Catch you later. Gotta go. It's morning in Japan and I suppose I ought to get some actual work done!

 

[Joseph_Botwinick]

Hi John,

You are correct that a prophet is one who proclaims the Word from the Lord. I think that is one of the words used in the Hebrew. Man, I wish I had enough time to really do the research to do this topic justice. But from my understanding of things, there are two Hebrew words for prophet: One meaning to proclaim or preach the Word from the Lord, and the other meaning to predict, as is implied in the verse I posted above (if the prophecy does not come true, then the prophet is false and should not be feared nor listened to).

Joseph Botwinick

 

[Ed Edwards]

PastorSBC1303: //I received the following from an email discussion group ...
In a message recorded in 1979 Hal Lindsey made the following predictions ... //

The lead in post is not believable. Before intertaining a discussion
of the matter, I would like to examine the source material.
I was a Hal Lindsay fan up to 1999 when my first wife died.
I do not recall him saying such things as are (probably) misquoted
in the OP (opening post). He was very careful to say
things like:

(for example) - the pretribulation rapture could be soon.

This was true in 1979, 1989, 1999, and is true today in 2006.
There is a difference between saying that and specific dates like
saying in 1979:

(for example) - I think the pretribulation rapture will
be in Sept 1986 or June 1988.

I still have my copy of Edgar C. Wisenant's
88 REASONS why the RAPTURE will be in 1988
where he predicts the pretribulation rapture on
Rosh-Hash-Ana (AKA: the Feasts of Trumpets)
on Sept 11,12, or 13 in 1988. This is a 64-page booklet
(editions were varied, he gave them out to people who would
pay for the cost of copying)

A companion booklet is the 60-page ON BORROWED TIME
where Wisenant discusses the nuclear war on Sept 11-13, 1988
that would cover the pretribulation rapture.
Unfortunately, Wisenant didn't know that in 1985 the
Christian popultion of Africa for the first time exceeded
the Christian population of North America. But hey, maybe they
aren't as many real Christians?

Needless to say, Wisenant was wrong.

Anybody want to talk about Willim Miller and the Adventist
movement? Miller taught that Jesus would come at the
postribulation resurrection in 1844. When that didn't come
to pass, his followers decided that Jesus did come (or
some say 'entered a private/hidden scantuary in heaven'),
only the indoctrinated could recognize it.

Ah the folly of picking dates that Jesus does not return on

 

[PastorSBC1303]

Bro. Ed, I am trying to locate the source material from the person who posted it on the email group. All I know right now was it was from a live presentation that Lindsey did in 1979 and it is recorded on tape. When I find more out I will post it.

 

[Me4Him]

Originally posted by Ed Edwards:


I still have my copy of Edgar C. Wisenant's
88 REASONS why the RAPTURE will be in 1988
where he predicts the pretribulation rapture on
Rosh-Hash-Ana (AKA: the Feasts of Trumpets)
on Sept 11,12, or 13 in 1988. This is a 64-page booklet (editions were varied, he gave them out to people who would pay for the cost of copying)

I can understand "WHY" he predicted the rapture during the feast of trumpets, the first five event in the NT occurred on the "EXACT DATES" given for their corresponding "Feast/dates" in the OT.

Can anyone give me "one reason" why this sequence of "events/feast" shouldn't continue???

The "Feast of trumpet" is the start of the Jewish "new year", and since their calendar doesn't precisely match the "solar", the New Year doesn't begin until "Two witnesses" bear witness of the "New MOON (assemble of God's people) to the Sanhedren.

When you ignore Jewish customs, you can forget about "prophecy".

 

[Ed Edwards]

Originally posted by PastorSBC1303:
Bro. Ed, I am trying to locate the source material from the person who posted it on the email group. All I know right now was it was from a live presentation that Lindsey did in 1979 and it is recorded on tape. When I find more out I will post it.

Thank you.
I don't like to try a person
and find them guilty without inspecting the
evidence. It is hard to summarize what a person
says when you have a bias against them

 

[Ed Edwards]

Today there are 188 hits on google for:
"false prophecies of Hal Lindsey".
They seem to be book reviews for:

The Book WILL CATHOLICS BE "LEFT BEHIND"? by Carl E. Olson
has some 200 posts on different web pages.

They seem to say:
//The main problem Olson faces is that the people who really need this book (fundamentalists) will dare never read it. They'll be too busy lapping up the false prophecies of Hal Lindsey et al on TBN and will be warned off this book by their false teachers.//

I believe that the charges against Hal Linsey about what he
might have said in 1979 are similar sales techniques.

I will not crucify Hal Lindsey to sell
the books against him. I do not
recommend you, my friends and fellow BBers
do that either.
We have no right to judge Brother
Hal Lindsey on the basis of the sales techniques of his enemies.
It just isn't fair.
It is the false judgement which the Bible
speaks against.