Hand Raising in Worship

Yea, so why don't you just walk up to the front of the church and do that yourself this Sunday?

See this is what I have been on a tear about lately. Hermeneutics!!!!

Nothing is more important than HOW you interpret a passage of Scripture!!

Nothing.

#1 Just because David did it, doesn't mean you should.

#2 The natural reading of the text does seem to indicate that David's action in this circumstance was not displeasing unto God.

#3 However, this circumstance is a HECK of a lot different than worshiping God in the sanctuary with other believers which requires decency and reverence.

#4 I think stripping naked (which there is plenty of questions as to whether or not David was literally naked) and dancing over a military vicotry of this great an import is not out of place. David was understandably overwhelmed at the goodness of God in giving this great victory and was overcome with emotion. On RARE, very RARE occasions and in appropriate circumstances this is perfectly acceptable.

#5 In the sanctuary of God this type of thing is NOT perfectly acceptable- and certainly not on a regularly basis.

#6 Lifting of hands in the sanctuary on occasion is acceptable.

#7 Even this should be done decently and in order and with a spirit of reverence.

This is spiritual gobbly-gook and has nothing to do with wild worship in the house of God among the people of God.

What does this even mean? This is more spiritual gobbly-gook.

How does the Holy Spirit "put this on your heart"? What means does he utilize? Does he whisper softly in your ear? Does he make the cackles stand up on the back of your neck?? How do you know when the "Holy Spirit puts this on your heart"? What biblical basis do you have for the Holy Spirit "putting things on your heart"??

And until you can better support said opinion it is pointless.

 

I also disagree with this since we have no Bible measure of what is dignified and how humility and contrition are to be measured. Any measure of those is opinion and normally culturally based.

 

I agree for the most part- except that we should worship according to the dictates of Scripture- not based on "who we are".

But think I get your point. We should worship according to how we are comfortable so long as that falls within the dictates of Scripture.

 

Was shooting for succinct and missed a vital point. Thanks.

 

This is worth discussing.

I actually don't know for sure if it is true or not.

When I think of dignity manifesting itself in worship I think of a certain thing.

The same is true when I think of reverence and humility.

This would be a good debate. I would argue for what I think but not dogmatically because I do not know for sure if I am right.

Debate such as this is very helpful in finding out which position stands up to scrutiny.

I'll tell you that I think there are standards by which the manifestation of reverence and humility and dignity can be measured- at least to some degree.

For example, on the extreme end- Pounding one's self on the chest and screaming "I'm the man!" from the floor in the middle of Sunday's sermon could not be rightly construed as a manifestation of humility in the vast majority of normal circumstances.

Furthermore, walking up to the cross while the choir sings "When I Survey the Wondrous Cross" in church and making obscene gestures towards it cannot be construed as reverence.

So, I think there ARE some, at least accepted, standards by which we judge such things.

If that is true, as I tend to think it is, then your sweeping remark that there are no standards by which we rightly judge such things is not valid.

 

Your arguements from the extreme aside, we must accept that there are differing attitudes toward dignity and humility and how they are manifested. If the Bible is indeed to be our guide, it, not our cultural preferences, should be our guide.

 

But an argument begins with the extreme to prove that a general remark may have exceptions.

As the argument progresses the examples become more and more common.

But it starts like this.

-A perfect rule has no exceptions (There are no standards by which we judge dignity, reverence and humility in worship: this is the rule stated as though it is true across the board)
-Extreme examples provide exceptions to the rule given (pounding chest and making obscene gestures toward the cross)
-The given rule fails perfection (in other words there may indeed be SOME standard by which we judge whether certain behavior in church is truly dignified, reverential and humble).

 

Roger, do you remember how Dr. Roberson used to lift his hands to heaven when he prayed? For him it was a "natural" thing. That's how I feel it should be.

 

I think the question here that bears asking is WHY do you raise hands when you worship?

Do you feel impressed by the Holy Spirit to raise your hands to the one most high? Or are you doing it because everyone else in the worship service is doing it and you feel like you should?

I make no judgments, but think we should examine our motives on this issue as we do on others. I do raise my hands, usually one, during the sermon but never during the music portion (I play the piano and need both hands on the keyboard), but I will when listening to music here at home, my feet will even dance around when listening to music here at home. I've been known to shed a lot of tears. I say Amen and....gasp, we even wave hankies (red ones too) when the preacher's words move us.

I think it's more important WHY we do it, rather than whether or not we do it.

 

When I was in seminary they took us to Pentecostal Churches to show the differences in the music part of the service, so it isn't new to associate it with the Charismatics folks. Loud, jumping, hands in air, dancing and rolling on the floor. Now we can go into many churches and have service as the Pentecostal Churches did in the 40's, 50's and 60's.

 

I've seen Dr. Roberson do that as well and W. A. Criswell drop to a knee to pray.

 

I think I know where you are coming from and I agree.

But I also think the above is part of the problem.

"impressed by the Holy Spirit"? What does that mean???

how do you tell when you are "impressed by the Holy Spirit" to do things?

Is it some funny feeling??

Is it some whispering voice in your mind?

This is really still pentecostalism pouring over into our own philosophies, ti seems to me.

We ought to make decisions based on godly wisdom gleaned from the Scriptures. We ought not make decisions (like how to worship) based on funny, mystical feelings.

 

If you have never felt "impressed by the Spirit" then perhaps you call it something else, but I believe every born-again child of God has had these "impressions", "feelings", or whatever.

1 Corinthians 14:32,33 is the Scriptural rule.

 

Are you talking about Dr. Lee Roberson from Tennessee Temple University? If so, while I attended there, I never saw him raise his hands at all. I'm not saying it is wrong, I don't believe raising hands during worship is wrong at all. I just don't remember seeing Dr. Roberson doing it.

 

What on earth are you talking about??

The OP was about raising your hands in church. Why must you go to the extreme and just start making stuff up?

This attitude is exactly why some do not raise their hands in church. They're afraid of what someone will say. They're afraid someone will call them a pentecostal kook.

Has anyone posting in this thread actually read the OT?? Have you done any research on how the Jews worshiped God? They worshiped with instruments (some very loud, like cymbals), they clapped and danced, and yes they raised their hands. This was pleasing to God. But now it's suddenly wrong to do it?? Yes the Charismatics have perverted worship and made it all about an "ecstatic feeling", but does that mean we give up biblical worship because some have abused their privileges as Christians?

And yes, I have "feelings" toward God. It's called love. I love my son, so I give him a hug. I can't give God a hug, but I can raise my hand to Him.

And how is it "disruptive" to raise your hand in worship? It doesn't make a sound. If someone is disrupted, I would say it's just because they have a hangup about it.


I'm wondering if those who have a problem with raising hands in worship also have a problem with getting on your knees to pray?

It's funny how excited these same people can get at a ball game, but when it comes to God, they show no emotion whatsoever.

 

I haven't read the whole thread. Is there any NT Scripture to back this notion of raising hands in the air, or is it just an emotional pentecostal-type response?

 

While some have made unfair, broad sweeping accusations, Amy, this is also one. I have no hangup over this, to me its a non issue quite frankly. For ME the disruption comes when I'm sitting and singing and the person jumps up in front of me, and the only way I can see the words is by standing up...and even then I can be move side to side trying to see the screen through their arms as it looks like they are trying to block a field goal. Its also disruptive to ME when we aree asked to be seated during a song and a couple people decide to stand. There is almost a sense in the congregation everyone is also supposed to stand up and you have a bunch of people looking around wondering if they are supposed to. This takes focus off of worship, IMO. Its great to have individual preferences but people should also realize this is corporate worship as well. People also need to realize that unless they are in the back row they could be imeding those behind them.

 

Yes, I saw him do it many times. I am deaf so my head wasn't bowed and my eyes weren't closed.:smilewinkgrin:

 

Well, while I don't think I'd ever call it a "funny, mystical feeling", being impressed by the Holy Spirit is much like that urging one receives at the moment of salvation....it's really hard to put into words. It's almost as if you didn't do it it would be wrong kind of feeling ....and I really dislike that word when it comes to Christians because we don't do things for "feelings" but for lack of a better word at the moment. It's like when you awaken in the middle of the night and know, without a doubt, that you're to pray for someone. That's the Holy Spirit impressing upon you, even in your sleep.