Hand Raising in Worship

[CF1]

The more I think about it, maybe only about 5% raise hands occasionally (not always all together). I'm really not sure of the percentage. I've never tried to estimate it carefully.

 

[righteousdude2]

Your Mission this Sunday....

The more I think about it, maybe only about 5% raise hands occasionally (not always all together). I'm really not sure of the percentage. I've never tried to estimate it carefully.

....is to take a "hands raised" count :wavey:

 

[MicahJF612]

You misunderstand. I mean... How can I say this... Haha

I do not read Aramaic. I have no desire to read Aramaic. And yet people love reading in the tongue of Christ, and are extremely blessed by it. Others are blessed by manually serving another. Still others are blessed by simply sitting with the elderly and listening. One is not 'less' of a Christian because they don't do these things, they're simply missing out on a blessing.

But, more importantly, we should be true before God. I'm a pk, but I rarely ever wear anything super fancy to church. Never a tux, never a suit, usually just a nice shirt and jeans. To worship in a suit wouldn't be honest to God, and so I don't.

Anyway, I don't condemn those that don't. Its simply missing out on a wonderful experience.

But I'm hurt by those people who rant and rave about how its somehow... heretical to worship God in that way. That was what I was trying to say.

 

[CF1]

Your mission this sunday....is to take a "hands raised" count :wavey:

But that would distract me. Just kidding.

 

[Luke2427]

If you have never felt "impressed by the Spirit" then perhaps you call it something else, but I believe every born-again child of God has had these "impressions", "feelings", or whatever.

1 Corinthians 14:32,33 is the Scriptural rule.

That passage has nothing to do with feelings or impressions. The idea is not there at all. To claim otherwise is eisegesis.

 

[Luke2427]

What on earth are you talking about??

The OP was about raising your hands in church. Why must you go to the extreme and just start making stuff up?

This attitude is exactly why some do not raise their hands in church. They're afraid of what someone will say. They're afraid someone will call them a pentecostal kook.

Has anyone posting in this thread actually read the OT?? Have you done any research on how the Jews worshiped God? They worshiped with instruments (some very loud, like cymbals), they clapped and danced, and yes they raised their hands. This was pleasing to God. But now it's suddenly wrong to do it?? Yes the Charismatics have perverted worship and made it all about an "ecstatic feeling", but does that mean we give up biblical worship because some have abused their privileges as Christians?

And yes, I have "feelings" toward God. It's called love. I love my son, so I give him a hug. I can't give God a hug, but I can raise my hand to Him.

And how is it "disruptive" to raise your hand in worship? It doesn't make a sound. If someone is disrupted, I would say it's just because they have a hangup about it.


I'm wondering if those who have a problem with raising hands in worship also have a problem with getting on your knees to pray?

It's funny how excited these same people can get at a ball game, but when it comes to God, they show no emotion whatsoever.

It is called argumentation Amy.

If one says, "There is no standard by which you can judge what is dignified in worship," then that statement needs to be scrutinized.

Extreme examples prove that statement to be wrong.

That is why I said that.

I actually explained that in the next post if you would just read rather than knee jerk respond.

 

[Luke2427]

Well, while I don't think I'd ever call it a "funny, mystical feeling", being impressed by the Holy Spirit is much like that urging one receives at the moment of salvation....it's really hard to put into words. It's almost as if you didn't do it it would be wrong kind of feeling ....and I really dislike that word when it comes to Christians because we don't do things for "feelings" but for lack of a better word at the moment. It's like when you awaken in the middle of the night and know, without a doubt, that you're to pray for someone. That's the Holy Spirit impressing upon you, even in your sleep.

The reason I ask is because I think we have an epidemic of bad thinking in this area in our religious culture.

We make decisions based on "impressions" and "feelings" and signs like a bible falling open to a certain passage.

This ought not be so.

We are taught in Scripture to make decisions based on WISDOM.

Wisdom is what we glean primarily from the Scriptures.

There is no biblical basis for the Holy Ghost impressing something on our hearts. It is not that he cannot do it. It is that he leads us a far better way. By imparting unto us wisdom from the Scriptures.

Then when we come to a crossroads we don't have to wait for a feeling or impression. We pray for the Holy Spirit to bring to our remembrance the things which we have learned from the Scriptures and make a WISE decision.

That is also how we decide whether or not to raise our hands in worship. The LAST thing we need to do is wait to FEEL something. That is the worst way to make decisions.

But our religious culture is eat up with that flawed way of thinking. They think it is spiritual- but it is not.

 

[Luke2427]

I am not speaking about what Jews did.
And I am certainly not aligning myself with the Charismatic movement.
So, what NT precedent is there for waving one's hands in the air?

What New Testament precedent is there for using musical instruments in church?

What NT precedent is there for following an order of service?

What NT precedent is there for hanging a church sign outside?

Your reasoning is flawed. This is the kind of error you make often in debate.

We don't need a NT precedent to do something, especially if we have an OT one.

 

[Luke2427]

To worship in a suit wouldn't be honest to God, and so I don't.

I think this is an unfortunate fad way of thinking.

Some people wear suits because they think the Lord in worship deserves their best.

If you can't afford one- fine. Do your best.

But I must confess I do not like the casual way so many people in our religious culture approach the worship of Almighty God.

We are more concerned with relevance than reverence- and that is a shame.

 

[Mexdeaf]

Wisdom is telling me to ignore this thread, so I will.

 

[DHK]

What New Testament precedent is there for using musical instruments in church?

To quote, or paraphrase, Spurgeon: he would not have instruments in his church lest it detract any from the focus of Christ crucified. By precedent, I mean is there any Scripture that would lead one to believe that the early churches practiced this.

What NT precedent is there for following an order of service?

I am sure that the early churches order of service changed from church to church as well. Paul seems to indicate that the order of service was out of order in the church at Corinth. "They had homes to eat in."

What NT precedent is there for hanging a church sign outside?

The building is not the church. Get your theology straight.

Your reasoning is flawed. This is the kind of error you make often in debate.

To find out what the early church did, what their practice was is not wrong. In fact if we want to be more Biblical in our services we would do what they did:

And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers. (Acts 2:42)
--Notice that doctrine (not worship), is put first. There needs to be more of an emphasis in doctrine in our churches.

Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. (Hebrews 10:25)
--What is the manner of some? As the manner of the churches gather so ought the people be faithful to the services of the church, and not forsake the assembling of themselves together (not just Sunday mornings).

There is much more that we can learn from the NT about how they "worshiped," if we take the time to study.

We don't need a NT precedent to do something, especially if we have an OT one.

We need to study the Bible and learn more about what early believers did. We might learn a thing or two.

 

[Amy.G]

Wisdom is telling me to ignore this thread, so I will.

Wise man. This is one of those discussions that somebody slams you no matter what you say.

 

[CF1]

Then when we come to a crossroads we don't have to wait for a feeling or impression. We pray for the Holy Spirit to bring to our remembrance the things which we have learned from the Scriptures and make a WISE decision.

--Notice that doctrine (not worship), is put first. There needs to be more of an emphasis in doctrine in our churches.

So even though both of you have various nuances you are debating, both of you are saying we should get our leading from Scripture and Doctrine which impacts our mind, which then impacts our love for God.

We should not rely first on subjective feelings and emotions, however it does appear that when our mind is impacted by Scripture and Doctrine, this causes powerful feelings and emotions of love.

Its about cause and effect. rather than "Reverse Causality". If our feelings and emotions are caused by the Holy Spirit illuminating to our mind truth from Scripture and Doctrine, we would have to have hearts that were stone cold to not feel powerful emotions about such amazing truth!

I agree it is very good to make sure our powerful emotions are caused by Scripture and Doctrine, and not mixed up with "Reverse Causality" thinking.

If we can see with both our head and heart that are connected to truth, then we can decide from both head and heart to raise hands like David did.

If our head is empty and all we feel is an emotion that has little basis in our head, mind, Scripture, and Doctrine, we are likely to be tossed about by every wind of doctrine.

However, also, if we quench the Spirit and say I will only be a cerebral person who represses all God-given emotion, caused by Amazing truth that results in inexpressable glory to God, well then we quench the Spirit, which no longer follows Scripture and Doctrine.

So it isn't
A. feelings and emotion
causes
B. Scripture, Doctrine, Truth, Mind, Head, illuminated by the Holy Spirit

But it is that
B. Scripture, Doctrine, Truth, Mind, Head, illuminated by the Holy Spirit
causes
A. feelings and emotion

If we teach people properly they will have even stronger feelings and emotions of love.
If we teach people wrongly, we will stifle "ALL" emotions, because the teacher doesn't understand that emotions are not bad, they just have to be caused by the right things.

 

[CF1]

Another thought, to hear what others think about it, test it, prove it, etc.

Just as there is logical support that Glorious Scripture, Doctrine, and the mind engaged causes us to have emotion of deep love, back to God,

There is also support that those same emotions of deep love, back to God, cause further God motivated desire to study more and more and more Glorious Scripture and beauty in Doctrine that points to the Lord's heart.

It's a circular loop of Truth causing emotion, causing us to seek more truth, causing more emotion, etc, etc

Singing is the heart expressing emotion and truth together, not to people around us, but to God and God alone. If that causes us to lift our hands to express that emotion of deep love, and if it is based on God's Holy Spirit illuminating such Glorious truths in Scripture that even the stones would cry out in Praise, then how can one say that should be quenched?

It seems we should raise hands in church the same as we would walking in the woods and meditating on Scripture there, as if no one was watching or should care to watch.

The only problem with it seems to be when we lose sight of God and focus on man around us.

 

[convicted1]

Wisdom is telling me to ignore this thread, so I will.

You are wise beyond your years!!!

 

[DiamondLady]

I'm laughing because I was thinking something along those same lines as to why every single question on here has to turn into a mud-slinging debate and someone has to go on the warpath informing other people of how wrong they are, how heathenistic they are, and on and on. I'm just about to stick to the quiet women's forum because I almost can't take it anymore. People are simply horrid to one another here and I do not believe that it's at all Christ honoring.

 

[Amy.G]

I'm laughing because I was thinking something along those same lines as to why every single question on here has to turn into a mud-slinging debate and someone has to go on the warpath informing other people of how wrong they are, how heathenistic they are, and on and on. I'm just about to stick to the quiet women's forum because I almost can't take it anymore. People are simply horrid to one another here and I do not believe that it's at all Christ honoring.

Amen sis! :thumbsup:

 

[convicted1]

I'm laughing because I was thinking something along those same lines as to why every single question on here has to turn into a mud-slinging debate and someone has to go on the warpath informing other people of how wrong they are, how heathenistic they are, and on and on. I'm just about to stick to the quiet women's forum because I almost can't take it anymore. People are simply horrid to one another here and I do not believe that it's at all Christ honoring.

I would raise my hand and second this, but someone may get offended by this distraction.

 

[CF1]

We all fight the battle against sin that dwells in our flesh, which fights against the Holy Spirit in our hearts, and seeks to distract us from the Glory of God.

It is good to examine our sin as we converse with each other.

We are one in the Spirit. We should seek to edify and lift up. Constructive criticism edifies. The other type does not seem to do much for anyone.

 

[convicted1]

We all fight the battle against sin that dwells in our flesh, which fights against the Holy Spirit in our hearts, and seeks to distract us from the Glory of God.

It is good to examine our sin as we converse with each other.

We are one in the Spirit. We should seek to edify and lift up. Constructive criticism edifies. The other type does not seem to do much for anyone.

That which I bolded, I am in complete agreement with. On here, its nothing more than destructive criticism. It always about someone showing how much they know, versus what little everyone else does. I am surprized that some on here would want to converse with the others; they may see the IQ drop a few points by conversing with us "dummies".