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"Happy ________ in heaven!"

Alcott

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
In the last few days, the deaths of John Madden, Betty White, and Dan Reeves and have become the subjects of a lot of discussions. And as usual, there are many statements along the lines of "Happy heavenly birthday" and "Have a good time watching the Super Bowl from heaven."

Is this something that we should just take with a grain of salt, or ignore, or criticize, or just join in and be part of it? It happens about every time a celebrity dies, and unquestionably there are many of those for whom it is questionable, or inherently impossible, for such a thing to be the case by the words of Jesus. And indeed, even if they are professed believers, there is still to be considered what He said about being rich in this world and being a non-fruitbearing tree.

Perhaps this is an extension of what most of us do when, for example, our Christian grandfather who drank, smoked, did shady deals, and seldom attended a service passes away. We just assume he's 'in heaven' anyway. To say otherwise would cause a split between us and other family members who were closer to him.

This thing even reaches to the fictional characters an actor has played. For example, I remember when Eddie Albert died, on a message board people were saying "Now he's in heaven enjoying Lisa's hotscakes again" [he played NY attorney Oliver Douglas, who became a scrabble farmer, bringing his socialite wife (Eva Gabor) with him, who knew nothing about cooking, but learned to make hotcakes that could be used for machine parts].

All in all, what should be the attitude toward treating the afterlife as something so comical, or really believing anyone that we liked has to be in heaven after passing?
 

Salty

20,000 Posts Club
Administrator
Why would any of us think they're in Heaven?
We dont know! and we could be a bit surprise when we get to Heave.
Of course we will also be surprised at who is not there!

I think this comes under our "Billy Graham Rule"
Just let folks think what they want to for a month or so.

In fact -I was listening to an audio of Sen Cruz the other day; he was asked about the senator who recently died, He said to those who have died to RIP - or words to that affect.

IMHO - if we start saying that White, Madden ect are not in Heave (and worse - to say they are in Hell -) you will not win any friends. This is a great opportunity to start witnessing to someone.

Let sleeping dogs lie ---------- at least for 30 days.
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Better not to declare anyone saved or unsaved (alive or dead) since we really cannot know what God has done in their lives even up to the moment of death.

Peace to you
 

37818

Well-Known Member
Unless one can know for sure, then Christianty is no better then any other belief system.
1 Corinthians 15:13-19.
2 Corinthians 5:8.
1 John 5:9-13.
 

unprofitable

Active Member
To wish someone a happy time watching the super bowl from heaven is blasphemous.

1 John 3:14 says, "We KNOW (have assurance/confidence) we have passed from death unto life because we love THE BRETHREN."

Matthew 7:20 says, "Wherefore by their fruits ye SHALL know them."

Betty White loved her animals. John Madden and Dan Reeves loved football.

DId they love the brethren?
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
Unless one can know for sure, then Christianty is no better then any other belief system.
1 Corinthians 15:13-19.
2 Corinthians 5:8.
1 John 5:9-13.
You misunderstand my point.

You can know for certain your own salvation because scripture tells us the Spirit of God testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.

If you can show me a passage that says the Spirit of God testifies with our spirit that someone else is or is not a child of God please enlighten me.

The best we can do is observe whether their beliefs and life are consistent with a profession of faith in Christ. That may or may not suggest salvation or a lack thereof.

Best to be careful proclaiming anyone saved or unsaved.

peace to you
 

SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
We dont know! and we could be a bit surprise when we get to Heave.
Of course we will also be surprised at who is not there!

I think this comes under our "Billy Graham Rule"
Just let folks think what they want to for a month or so.

In fact -I was listening to an audio of Sen Cruz the other day; he was asked about the senator who recently died, He said to those who have died to RIP - or words to that affect.

IMHO - if we start saying that White, Madden ect are not in Heave (and worse - to say they are in Hell -) you will not win any friends. This is a great opportunity to start witnessing to someone.

Let sleeping dogs lie ---------- at least for 30 days.

I agree, as there are always death bed salvations. Best to leave who will be in heaven to the Good Lord, Who alone know who will and who will not be in His eternal Kingdom!
 

canadyjd

Well-Known Member
I agree, as there are always death bed salvations. Best to leave who will be in heaven to the Good Lord, Who alone know who will and who will not be in His eternal Kingdom!
I always appreciate it when you agree with me (and salty).

It demonstrates you are able to discern good arguments on some issues.

Maybe we can bring you around on other issues.

peace to you
 

Two Wings

Well-Known Member
this reminds me of a scenario in a disciple training I have facilitated called "Launching Multipliers"

"Your teenage son has invited some friends over for the big game. As you watch the action from the back of the room you are initially astounded at how quickly a half dozen 15 y/os devour a couple of large pizzas and dozens of chicken wings. After plenty of excitement and yelling during the game (and another order of pizzas), one of the players begins his pot-game interview by thanking "the Big Guy upstairs." Another expresses gratitude to his "Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ" One of the teenagers remarks he's uncomfortable with speaking about Jesus in a public setting. Another responds tht he squirms when people talk about God flippantly as "The Big Guy" or "my Homeboy." A couple of other comments are offered but it is an obvious stalemate. After another slice of pizza and some good-natured harassment for the fans of the losing team, the party breaks up.

When they leave, your son asks you if you heard what his friends were talking about. When you nod affirmatively, he asks, "how should we talk about God? Is he our heavenly buddy or the all-powerful Judge? Does He want to be our friends or is He so great that He is completely different from us?"
 

37818

Well-Known Member
You can know for certain your own salvation because scripture tells us the Spirit of God testifies with our spirit that we are children of God.

If you can show me a passage that says the Spirit of God testifies with our spirit that someone else is or is not a child of God please enlighten me.

The best we can do is observe whether their beliefs and life are consistent with a profession of faith in Christ. That may or may not suggest salvation or a lack thereof.

Best to be careful proclaiming anyone saved or unsaved.

peace to you
There are two aspects of this. One can believe a fellow professing Christian to be saved or yet lost. One's belief about fellow professing Christian does not determine the other's status with God. We can ask one how one would explain to another how to know God and know for sure one is going to Heaven. And listen to the answer that is given. We may or may not agree with the explanation given. And even by that, we might not really know the other's status with God.
 
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SavedByGrace

Well-Known Member
There are two aspects of this. One can believe a fellow professing Christian to be save or yet lost. One's belief about fellow professing Christian does not determine the other's status with God. We can ask one how one would explain to another how to know God and know for sure one is going to Heaven. And listen to the answer that is given. We may or may not agree with the explanation given. And even by that, we might not really know the other's status with God.

a person is either born again by the Holy Spirit, or not. they are either saved or damned. There are no in-betweens! what you write makes zero sense!
 

just-want-peace

Well-Known Member
Site Supporter
I wonder just how many answers will be knee-jerk answers & how many will be carefully considered?
After all, He is THE Righteous judge as well as our Father (who plays with us as well as disciplines us!?), so IMHO there should be a factor of fear as well as a feeling of intimacy in our relation with Him!!
Balance & communication, again, IMHO, is key!!
 

37818

Well-Known Member
a person is either born again by the Holy Spirit, or not. they are either saved or damned. There are no in-betweens! what you write makes zero sense!
Well, either a person knows God and knows for sure about going to Heaven or the person does not know God. John 17:3.
 
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37818

Well-Known Member
The determining factor is revealed in the Revelation, Revelation 20:6, Revelation 20:15. And Jesus did explain, Mark 10:15, John 3:3 etc.
 

37818

Well-Known Member
This is how I see that Bible’s way for a sinner to get saved.

1. No human being can, in and of themselves, call upon the Lord for their salvation. The Bible is very clear, as Romans 3:11 says: “There is no one who seeks after God”. The natural person would not desire to give their lives to the Lord. Salvation is a free Gift from God to the human race: “for by grace you have been saved through faith, and that not of yourselves; it is the gift of God, not of works, that no one would boast” (Ephesians 2:8-9)

2. There is no “good work” that a sinner can ever do, that can “merit” their salvation. “Works salvation” is a man-made heresy. This is very clear in Romans 11:6, “And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work”.

3. Saving Faith, which leads a sinner to repentance and faith in the Lord, comes from the hearing in the inner person, of the Gospel Message preached, as Romans 10:17 says, “So faith comes by hearing, and hearing by the word of God”. As this faith cannot be self-manufactured, it must be a gift from God, through the Message received by the sinner.

4. The sinner hears the Gospel Message, and is convicted by the Holy Spirit, as Jesus tells is in John 16:8-9, “When he has come, he will convict the world about sin…about sin, because they don’t believe in me". Which is what happened to those who heard Peter’s sermon on the Day of Pentecost. “Now when they heard this, they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Men and brethren, what shall we do?” (Acts 2:37)

5. The sinner must, before they are saved, repent of their sins, and believe in their hearts the Gospel about the Lord Jesus Christ. Faith alone cannot save any sinner, apart from repenting of their sins. Mark 1:15, is very clear on this, “The time is fulfilled, and God’s Kingdom is at hand! Repent, and believe in the Good News.” Jesus does not say, “repent”, or “believe”, but the two must be taken together. Luke 24:47 also says, “and that repentance for forgiveness of sins would be proclaimed in His name to all the nations, beginning from Jerusalem”. After Peter finished preaching on the Day of Pentecost, those who had been “convicted” by the Holy Spirit, asked “what shall we DO”. To which Peter responds, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit” (Acts 2:38). So all of those who were under the conviction by the Holy Spirit, were told, not “do nothing”, but only “have faith”, as some falsely teach, but rather, “REPENT for forgiveness of sins”, and then they would “receive the Gift of the Holy Spirit”.

6. These on the Day of Pentecost, as is with all sinners, BELIEVED in the Gospel Message as preached by Peter. They were then called on to REPENT of their sins for their salvation. Ephesians 1:13 tells us, “in whom you also, having heard the word of the truth, the Good News of your salvation--in whom, having also believed, you were Sealed with the Holy Spirit of Promise”. The Gift of the Holy Spirit in Acts (Acts 2:38), is the same as the “Sealing with the Holy Spirit”. The sinner is then a “born-again” believer, who is guaranteed to be with the Lord forever in Heaven!

7. From the time that the sinner is “born-again”, their eternal life begins, which is for all eternity, and cannot be lost at any time. Jesus Himself promises us, “Most certainly I tell you, he who hears my word and believes him whopreached sent me has eternal life, and doesn’t come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life” (John 5:24). “has passed” in the Greek is the perfect active, showing that they had already crossed over from death to eternal life! In chapter 10, Jesus promises, “I give eternal life to them. They will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. My Father who has given them to me is greater than all. No one is able to snatch them out of my Father’s hand” (28-29). The Greek is much stronger, “and in no way will they perish for ever”. Very emphatic. Once a sinner is “born-again”, they cannot ever be lost!
 
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