Harry Potter - Saint or Sinner?

[Phillip]

Interesting remark Magnetic Poles and good point. You would have to believe in Magic yourself in order to believe a fictional character believes in ANYTHING.

People cannot seem to get it through their heads that it is FICTION and FICTION means that it is a story that is "made up"--"someones imagination".

Rowling may have used witchcraft, but how many people see witches fly on brooms or a bird burn in flames only to come back to life or use a magic wand with a stupid incantation to fix eyeglasses.

Harry Potter should be seen for what it is---fiction. There are a lot of fiction books out there a lot worse than Harry Potter; why doesn't anybody gripe about them? Is it because Rowling is successful and we're jealous?

Harry Potter may not be teaching specific moral values, but fiction books are designed for entertainment. They are strictly the authors imagination. I do not expect to see a wizard fly by my window tonight.

Remember another thing about talk-show hosts. If they don't do something contriversial (right or wrong) they lose ratings and their shows are cancelled. So, why not bash a fiction author who is successful?

Just my humble opinion. I think we're giving her a lot of publicity. The more negative publicity Rowling gets, the more books she sells--believe me, just like the talk show host--if you can stir up contrivery, your book or show will sell.

 

[Phillip]

Originally posted by Ulsterman:
To get back to the subject, the present Pope believes the Harry Potter books are pure Hogwash and "distort Christianity in the soul", according to two letters published online.

The comments were made to a German author who wrote Harry Potter - Good or Evil? which criticises JK Rowling's popular tales.

Gabriele Kuby sent the German pontiff a copy of the book in 2003, when he was still a cardinal, and his replies have now been published.

He said, "Harry Potter,[contains] subtle seductions which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly."

You can read more, here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/showbiz/showbiznews.html?in_article_id=355751&in_page_id=1773

So, since the Pope thinks this; are we supposed to agree with him?

Last I heard this was a Baptist board and not a Catholic board.

Personally, I don't care what the Pope thinks about anything.

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by donnA:

.........
All the junk they put in movies is fictional too. By your reasoning it is all ok for christians. No limits on what we can watch in movies, or read, or listen too in music, it is all ok, becasue it is fictional.
Means it isn't real, for your information.
God doesn't mind at all if it is fictional.

Dear donnA,
I think you can tell that is not what I am saying, from specific examples I have given.

Discernment is needed, but there are times sincere Christians are going to come down on different points on the spectrum.
Sometimes it is because one of them is wrong.

Not too many years ago, Shakespeare was extremely suspect among conservative Christians. The theater was seen as inherently wrong. Not just because of certain themes, but because ANY fiction was seen as idolatrous, creating an unreal world mentally. When only God is the real Creator. Many homeschoolers now study Shakespeare avidly in a way their spiritual ancestors would NOT understand.

The explosion of "Christian fiction" is partly because we have mostly left that view and regard fiction as ok if it is "nice".

Sometimes things are not appropriate for certain age-groups. Lemony Snicket, for example. A whole series of books and one movie.
I would NOT allow, personally, young children to read them. They are too depressing for that stage of life. However, for a 15 yearold, for example, they could be seen as witty, reminiscent of Roald Dahl.

When I was in grade school, we read a lot of Greek and Roman myths. To me, that was studying ancient cultures and classic legends. It was not persuading me to be a neo-classic pagan. Although apparently, that has happened with some people.

Many more examples are often cited, such as Alice in Wonderland, A Christmas Carol, The Legend of Sleepy Hollow, Rip Van Winkle, the Brothers Grimm, Nathaniel Hawthorne, St. George and the Dragon, The Wind in the Willows.

But I guess one of my basic points is that a use of classic myths and legends and imaginative telling of a story is not automatically wrong.

Karen

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by I Am Blessed 16:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr /> Harry Potter - Saint or Sinner?

I believe the author has serious problems with Christianity... </font>[/QUOTE]This may be true. But apparently the author is a member of the Church of Scotland.
One thing to be careful about, and you can investigate it at www.snopes.com, is that many quotes attributed to the author are simply not true, and have taken on a life of their own on the internet and other places.

Karen

 

[Ben W]

Should Christians watch Porn if the story is make believe?

What really is the difference between viewing make believe Porn as opposed to make believe witchcraft?

 

[Mercury]

Originally posted by Ben W:
Should Christians watch Porn if the story is make believe?

What really is the difference between viewing make believe Porn as opposed to make believe witchcraft?

Do you think watching or reading A Christmas Carol is akin to viewing porn?

I don't.

 

[I hate sin]

Why are Christians looking at these things anyway?

Fiction or not fiction, our minds should be trying to get more of Christ.

Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Originally posted by I hate sin:
Why are Christians looking at these things anyway?

Fiction or not fiction, our minds should be trying to get more of Christ.

Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also

Why should Christians look at the internet? Why should we read magazines? Why should we learn about mathematics? Why should we go bowling? Why should we go to sporting events?

 

[donnA]

What is the bible verse about the appearence of evil?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Some could say posting on Internet message boards gives an "appearance of evil".

 

[donnA]

Please show how from scripture. I ahve showed what scripture says about witchcraft, and God did nt give any allwances for maybe it is fictional or not, He covered all the bases.

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Donna, I don't have to. You are the one saying it has an appearance of evil. When people see you posting on the Internet, they could think you are posting on a site that promotes witchcraft. Avoid even the appearance, right?

 

[Mercury]

Originally posted by donnA:
What is the bible verse about the appearence of evil?

That verse means to flee from evil every time it appears, not to flee from anything that some people might think is evil, regardless of whether it really is. That interpretation is based on a misunderstanding of how the common meaning of the word "appearance" has changed from when the KJV was translated to the present. If that misinterpretation were true, then Jesus did not follow that verse, because he ate and drank with sinners and appeared to some to be a glutton and a drunkard because of it. (Of course, it was a false appearance.)

1 Thessalonians 5:21-22: "...But test everything; hold fast what is good. Abstain from every form of evil."

Romans 14:16: "So do not let what you regard as good be spoken of as evil."

I don't think Harry Potter is good in an absolute sense (only God is good in that sense), but it does contain much that is good and I do not believe that it contains the witchcraft that Scripture condemns (and I base that opinion on having read the books).

I think many are too quick to judge by appearances without testing first.

 

[donnA]

Witchcraft is witchcraft.
So how much junk in movies is actually ok for christians becasue it is fiction?

 

[Magnetic Poles]

Again donna, you miss the point. Oh well.

 

[Karen]

Originally posted by donnA:
Witchcraft is witchcraft.
So how much junk in movies is actually ok for christians becasue it is fiction?

I'm not sure there is a one-size-fits-all answer.
As I mentioned on another thread, I did not see Finding Neverland as the wonderful movie that you did. I thought it too much was about a man emotionally neglectful of his wife, while he gave the appearance of impropriety with a widow.
However, you and Diane thought it was a great movie, and I can accept that.

Ironic, though,

that Finding Neverland is about the creation of Peter Pan, the boy that flies away via magic to Neverland, where Tinkerbelle lives.

Karen

 

[I hate sin]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by I hate sin:

Why are Christians looking at these things anyway?

Fiction or not fiction, our minds should be trying to get more of Christ.

Mat 6:21 For where your treasure is, there will your heart be also
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Magnetic Poles


Why should Christians look at the internet? Why should we read magazines? Why should we learn about mathematics? Why should we go bowling? Why should we go to sporting events?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I too have read the first Harry Potter Book when I was unsaved.

Again; Christians should "want" to spend more time with God.

Even though we are still in these bodies that enjoy sin; It is often needful to beg God for grace to deny oneself the pleasures our sinful natures crave (yes, as Christians we still crave to sin; we are saved sinners! - Rom 8:22-24).

It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of a living God. Scripture tells us that...Rev 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Rev 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

Sorcerers will be in the lake of fire;

If we are truly born again we will ask God to help us put the things down in our lives that distract us from Him. We should not be rejoicing in sorcery...1Co 13:4 Charity... (Which in the Greek means love in action)... 1Co 13:6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity (sin), but rejoiceth in the truth;

In God's word we know that God's word is truth (John 17:17). It is by God's word we are set apart from the world (which is what the word sanctify means).

God's word tells us that we can be assured that we are truly going to heaven if we are truly born again;

1Jo 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.
1Jo 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

But do we believe in our hearts, or our heads? I stress this to many today. I was brought up as a preachers kid, and never knew God (I didn't have a relationship with Him). All I had was a knowledge of God. We also know that Judas walked with the Lord for three years, yet never knew Him. And God's word tells us that there will be many who think they are saved but after they die they will find out they are not...Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

It is important for every Christian to ask themselves the question "Am I saved." This is scriptural; 2Co 13:5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

How do we do examine ourselves whether we be in the faith? Rom 10:17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. By looking at the word of God, and seeing if we are doing the Father's will.

If we have a desire to do God's commands. That is the fruit of the Holy Ghost. There are many who are weak, because of different reasons. If we are struggling, and cry with David...Psa 119:5 O that my ways were directed to keep thy statutes! That is a sure fruit that one is a truly born again Christian.
But if we have an attitude that does not care about what God's word really says (I say "really" because I see in the churches today a great lack of desire in carrying their cross), we should enquire of the Lord, and ask Him persistently where we are going wrong.

PS. I love surfing, I find maths boring (I wouldn't do it for fun), anything that gives me adrenalin I still love. Except for the stuff I used to do when I was unsaved.

 

[Bro. James]

Some have defended H. Potter on the grounds that he provides a means for young folk to learn to read. One could make a similar analogy to "The Origin of Species".

I wonder: if a free copy of the Bible were offered at B. Dalton instead of H. Potter(not free of charge) how many would choose the Word of God?

My father in law learned how to read using the KJV--he was saved in the process.

H. Potter is making a few folks rich--probably not in the kingdom of God--verily, they have their reward.

Selah,

Bro. James

 

[Bro. James]

 

[Marcia]

Originally posted by Mercury:
</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by donnA:
Theres only one christian prespective on witchcraft. And thats God's respective, which He gave us in the Bible. He didn't say oh well, if it isn't serious witchcraft then it's ok. Got no scripture for that one.

As long as you are equally against The Wizard of Oz, the Narnia chronicles, and The Lord of the Rings, then I can understand that reasoning, even if I disagree with it. Those who find fault with Harry Potter while accepting some of these others will need to find reasons that don't paint with so broad a brush. </font>[/QUOTE]I couldn't vote because I don't think HP contains Satanism. What it DOES contain is occult practices that God specifically condemns and calls an abomination. Not only does it contain these practices, but Harry, the hero, and his friends learn and practice them.

I have not read Narnia but as far as I know, Lewis does not have characters who endorse occult arts. LOTR does not have characters who endorse the occult. Gandalf is not a wizard like HP. Tolkien used that word to describe him and later regretted it, but Gandalf is a creature like an angel with certain inherent powers. He does practice the occult. The main character, Frodo, does not practice the occult. Harry Potter does.

I have read all 5 books, seen all the movies, and written articles on all of them. These articles have been published in various places and I've been on at least 12 radio programs on this topic. Two of these programs were secular shows where I had to defend my views. I am saying all this to show I am not making these statements based on what I've heard but on my own reading, examination, thinking, evaluation, and using God's word.

I have several articles on HP but here is just the article on books 2, 3, and 4:
http://cana.userworld.com/cana_morehpotter1.html

Here's the one on book 5:
http://cana.userworld.com/cana_HarryPotter_Phoenix1.html

When the hero of a book aimed at ages 9-12 (that is the stated marketing target, at least of the first 5 books) practices things and supposed does good by using things God totally finds hateful, that is a problem. Harry also lies and cheats but does not feel remorse for it.