Has dispensationalism contributed to mistaken worldviews, or is it the truth ?

[John of Japan]

I understand......you are pressed for time.....so let's forget this man wrote this for now...
Another academic type person asks you two questions

Are gentiles in the new covenant ?

Is the new Covenant made with....wait for it.......the new Covenant church?

I feel no need to discuss this subject through you with some unnamed, anonymous academic person. The potential for misunderstanding is huge. Plus, I have to write a quiz for tomorrow and a test for Friday.

Sayonara for now.

 

[percho]

References to the Covenant of Grace can be found in various parts of the Bible if one is prepared to look for them as the following examples will show:-

Luke 22:22. “And truly the Son of Man goes as it has been determined……” Determined where and by whom if not in the Covenant of Grace?

John 6:38-39. “For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me. This is the will of the Father who sent Me, that of all He has given Me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.” Christ has been given a people and the task by the Father which He is determined to fulfil. What can this refer to if not the Covenant of Grace?

John 10:16. “And other sheep I have which are not of this fold; them also I must bring, and they will hear My voice; and there will be one flock and one shepherd.” Not, “I will bring,” but, “I must bring.” Our Lord had been given a commission to fulfil.

John 10:17-18. “Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again. No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.” Where did Christ receive this command, the doing of which merited so well the Father’s love? In the Covenant of Grace, of course.

Phil 2:6-8 (my translation). ‘Who, being in the form of God, did not consider equality with God something to be held onto for His advantage, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. And being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself and became obedient to the point of death, even the death of the cross.’ In the Covenant of Grace, our Lord gave up temporarily that equality with the Father that had existed from all eternity, and became the willing servant of Exodus 21:5-6 and Psalm 40:6-8 in order to rescue those who had been given to Him (John 17:2, 6 ).

Heb 2:13. ‘Here am I and the children whom God has given to Me.’ Given by the Father to the Son in the Covenant of Grace to be redeemed from sin and brought to heaven.

In Isaiah 42:6, Christ is described as the Covenant itself. He is, in His own Person and work, the very substance of it. In Mal 3:1, He is, ‘The Messenger of the Covenant’ because He came to proclaim it and make it known. In Heb 7:22, He is, ‘The Surety of a better covenant.’ Christ came as the representative of fallen Man, being engaged to fulfil the obligations incurred under the Covenant of Works. In Heb 9:15, He is, ‘The Mediator of the New Covenant’ since He has brought about legal satisfaction between God and man so that covenantal blessings are now imparted to those who had previously forfeited them, and He now stands between the two parties, advocating the cause of man to God (1John 2:1 ) and speaking a word of the comfort of God to the weary man (Isaiah 50:4 ).

Does all the above fall under, the faith of, the following, foreordained determination and promise of God? In reality do not all the covenants of God fall under the same?

Foreordained determination: Forasmuch as ye know that ye were not redeemed with corruptible things, as silver and gold, from your vain conversation received by tradition from your fathers; But with the precious blood of Christ, as of a lamb without blemish and without spot: Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you, 1 Peter 1:18-20

The promise: In hope of eternal life, which God, that cannot lie, promised before the world began; Titus 1:2

From the beginning of the creation of the world, Kosmos. Rom 1:20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse: Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made. - did not the following apply?

For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but because of Him who subjected it in hope; NKJV Rom 8:20

Is that hope the very same hope of the promise of God made before time began?

Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen. Heb 11:1 Who is the author and finisher of, the hope?

Who by him (Jesus of Nazareth) do believe in God, that raised him up from the dead, and gave him glory; that your faith and hope might be in God. 1 Peter 1:21

Are all the covenants of God dependent upon the above? The everlasting covenant?

Is it dispensational ?

But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept. 1 Cor 15:20
But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming. Then cometh the end, when he shall have delivered up the kingdom to God, even the Father; when he shall have put down all rule and all authority and power. For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death. For he hath put all things under his feet. But when he saith all things are put under him, it is manifest that he is excepted, which did put all things under him. And when all things shall be subdued unto him, then shall the Son also himself be subject unto him that put all things under him, that God may be all in all. 15:23-26
having made known to us the mystery of His will, according to His good pleasure which He purposed in Himself, that in the dispensation of the fullness of the times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both[fn] which are in heaven and which are on earth—in Him. Eph 1:9,10

Well it all hasn't taken place, yet.

In Him you also trusted, after you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation; in whom also, having believed, you were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise, who [fn] is the guarantee of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, to the praise of His glory. Eph 1:13,14

 

[HankD]

Hello Hank,
I tend to use the term 'Covenant of Grace' because I used to spend a lot of time over on the Puritan Board and that was the term they tended to use there because it is in the Westminster Confession and the 1689. If you prefer to call it the Everlasting Covenant (Hebrews 13:20) or anything else that takes your fancy, feel free.

'That which we call a rose would smell as sweet
By any other name.'

Thanks



HankD

 

[Martin Marprelate]

Aye, there's the rub. You have to search for such passages.

John 5:39. Search the Scriptures.

 

[Iconoclast]

I feel no need to discuss this subject through you with some unnamed, anonymous academic person. The potential for misunderstanding is huge. Plus, I have to write a quiz for tomorrow and a test for Friday.

Sayonara for now.

Yes.....I understand.

Well how about it dispensational brethren.....?
You can see JoJ. is short on time......he has been doing the heavy lifting so far on this thread.....Can anyone step up.and answer these two questions?
You can cheat and use the link I provided for a headstart......
Can anyone help out here?????

Or....do I have to revert to my rusty,dusty ,former understanding of these things and answer myself?☹

 

[HankD]

I understand......you are pressed for time.....so let's forget this man wrote this for now...
Another academic type person asks you two questions

Are gentiles in the new covenant ?

Is the new Covenant made with....wait for it.......the new Covenant church?

1) Yes, all nations are included.
Genesis 12:1 Now the LORD had said to Abram: "Get out of your country, From your family And from your father's house, To a land that I will show you.
2 I will make you a great nation; I will bless you And make your name great; And you shall be a blessing.
3 I will bless those who bless you, And I will curse him who curses you; And in you all the families of the earth shall be blessed."


2) Yes, all nations are included.
Acts 17:30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent.

HankD

 

[John of Japan]

John 5:39. Search the Scriptures.

Way to take me completely out of context and insinuate that I don't believe in searching the Scriptures.

What I really said:

"Aye, there's the rub. You have to search for such passages. In other words, you have to have a presupposition of a covenant of grace before you even begin your search. Every single passage you referenced depend on that presupposition, rather than strict exegesis. Not a single one of them teaches directly a covenant of grace."

 

[Squire Robertsson]

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