HAS GOD'S WORD BEEN PURIFIED SEVEN TIMES?

[Yeshua1]

So, I reread it. All I find are historical arguments that English is the language fulfilling the prophecy. (And by the way, that begs the question: how do you know that the Ps. 12 passage is even a prophecy? The Psalms are not generally prophetic, with few exceptions.)

Your main argument appears to be that English is a "universal language" (it is not) and therefore the fulfillment must be English. However, many Frenchmen take the position that French is the lingua franca of the world, and indeed French vies for first place in many places in Africa and elsewhere. In Cameroon, for example (where I have traveled as a Bible translation consultant), French is actually more prevalent than English, and Chinese is becoming well known. (I gave a Chinese tract to an African Chinese teacher in Cameroon.) Spanish also has a great claim to being the lingua franca of the world (your "universal language" which is not universal at all).

Note this chart: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-in-7-maps-and-charts/?utm_term=.b0c82837d7b3

There are 1.39 billion Chinese speakers in "all dialects." Now, while those dialects pronounce words differently, they can all read the same Bible. Tell me why the Chinese Bible is not the Word of God purified seven times. (I am not including versions that do not include the whole Bible.)

1. Robert Morrison's version
2. 遺詔全書, 1822
3. Lassar-Marshman Version (遺詔全書, 1822)
4. 神天聖書, 1823–1824
5. Morrison-Milne Version (神天聖書, 1823-1824)
6. Delegates Version (委辦譯本 or 代表譯本, 1854)
7. Chinese Union Version (和合本), 1904–1919

Many Chinese believe that the Chinese Union Version is the pure Word of God: "Union Only" believers, one might call them. Tell me why they are wrong and you are right. Why is the KJV and not the CUV the preserved Word of God for the world?

Really? You consider 123 million to be "few"? (This does not include Japanese speakers outside of Japan, such as the huge number of Koreans forced to learn Japanese in WW2.)

God had His word here to us in a translation before the 1611 Kjv, and the perfection was already there in the originals as soon as the Spirit inspired text went on the printed papyrus.

You have a translation for Japanese based upon the Nas that is in use, is that not the word of God to them now?

 

[John of Japan]

God had His word here to us in a translation before the 1611 Kjv, and the perfection was already there in the originals as soon as the Spirit inspired text went on the printed papyrus.

You have a translation for Japanese based upon the Nas that is in use, is that not the word of God to them now?

Sorry, but I see this query as sidetracking the thread.

 

[Yeshua1]

Sorry, but I see this query as sidetracking the thread.

I was just asking if you used another other English translation as a basis for your translation into Japanese, if yes, does it have to be Kjv in order to be "purified 7 times?"

 

[John of Japan]

I was just asking if you used another other English translation as a basis for your translation into Japanese, if yes, does it have to be Kjv in order to be "purified 7 times?"

For the Lifeline Japanese NT, we translated directly from the TR Greek NT. It is a mistake to use an intermediate version (making it a double translation) rather than the original language text. After doing my own translation from the Greek, for the 2nd draft with my Japanese partner, I almost invariably used other Japanese translations for comparison rather than English translations.

 

[Yeshua1]

For the Lifeline Japanese NT, we translated directly from the TR Greek NT. It is a mistake to use an intermediate version (making it a double translation) rather than the original language text. After doing my own translation from the Greek, for the 2nd draft with my Japanese partner, I almost invariably used other Japanese translations for comparison rather than English translations.

I thought that they was a translation used made off the Nas though?

 

[John of Japan]

I thought that they was a translation used made off the Nas though?

The translation used by most conservative Christians in Japan is the Shinkaiyaku (新改訳), which was supported by the Lockman Foundation and done from the same source texts as the NAS. Since it was not done from the Masoretic OT and the TR, most ind. Baptists missionaries there want a new version.

 

[Yeshua1]

The translation used by most conservative Christians in Japan is the Shinkaiyaku (新改訳), which was supported by the Lockman Foundation and done from the same source texts as the NAS. Since it was not done from the Masoretic OT and the TR, most ind. Baptists missionaries there want a new version.

Is it a good translation?

 

[John of Japan]

Is it a good translation?

I always liked it, but it's a little wooden like the NAS. Pretty literal.

 

[Yeshua1]

I always liked it, but it's a little wooden like the NAS. Pretty literal.

I have now started to use the 1995 revision, and it seems to read a bit smoother than my 1977 does!

 

[robycop3]

Any multilingual person will say that some subtleties & nuances of an original work are always lost in any translation of it to another language. While I believe that's true of translating the ancient Scriptural mss. into other languages, i believe GOD superintends the translating so it comes out the way HE wants. I don't believe any doctrine or precept He wants us to know has been lost in translations.

And, as I said above, I do NOT believe God's word has been purified 7 times. I don't believe it's been purified ONCE. I believe every word of God to men was pure the instant He uttered it.

 

[Yeshua1]

Any multilingual person will say that some subtleties & nuances of an original work are always lost in any translation of it to another language. While I believe that's true of translating the ancient Scriptural mss. into other languages, i believe GOD superintends the translating so it comes out the way HE wants. I don't believe any doctrine or precept He wants us to know has been lost in translations.

And, as I said above, I do NOT believe God's word has been purified 7 times. I don't believe it's been purified ONCE. I believe every word of God to men was pure the instant He uttered it.

To be purified at all afterwards, would mean that the Holy Spirit Himself goofed up on what words he intended to get penned down to us!

 

[rlvaughn]

...i believe GOD superintends the translating so it comes out the way HE wants...

Is that belief found in Scripture?

 

[robycop3]

Is that belief found in Scripture?

It's clearly implied, as we all believe God has preserved His word for all generations. Jesus often quoted the preserved words of the OT. And it should be obvious that if God has preserved His word, He's superintended that process.

 

[rlvaughn]

So you extrapolate from the promise of preservation God's superintendence of translation? Interesting.

 

[Yeshua1]

So you extrapolate from the promise of preservation God's superintendence of translation? Interesting.

The Holy Spirit inspired and made sure all that was penned down in the originals were exactly what was meant and intended, but that inspiration directly by Him does not go across to translations.

 

[rlvaughn]

The Holy Spirit inspired and made sure all that was penned down in the originals were exactly what was meant and intended, but that inspiration directly by Him does not go across to translations.

So you're saying Roby's assertion is a myth??

 

[rsr]

You might even say it is without biblical foundation ...

 

[Yeshua1]

So you're saying Roby's assertion is a myth??

No, if that was what he really holds with, would be a misunderstanding on doctrine of Inspiration.

 

[robycop3]

It's clearly implied, as we all believe God has preserved His word for all generations. Jesus often quoted the preserved words of the OT. And it should be obvious that if God has preserved His word, He's superintended that process.

I have said many times that all Bible translations are the product of God's perfect word being handled by imperfect men. But every valid Bible translation tells its readers all they know to be saved & live a Godly life.

In Scripture, we see Jesus read aloud from from a copy of Isaiah in Luke 4:16-21 that differed from the text used in our Bibles to have been translated into Isaiah 42 :7 & 61:1-3. Jesus called it "this Scripture", and the Jews hearing Him woulda gone ballistic had He not followed the writing He held verbatim. That's evidence of God's superintending, as the wording of those Scriptures was changed in the C. 500 years between Isaiah & Jesus, but yet Jesus called the newer writing "this Scripture". And remember, HE had full authority to do that!

 

[Yeshua1]

I have said many times that all Bible translations are the product of God's perfect word being handled by imperfect men. But every valid Bible translation tells its readers all they know to be saved & live a Godly life.

In Scripture, we see Jesus read aloud from from a copy of Isaiah in Luke 4:16-21 that differed from the text used in our Bibles to have been translated into Isaiah 42 :7 & 61:1-3. Jesus called it "this Scripture", and the Jews hearing Him woulda gone ballistic had He not followed the writing He held verbatim. That's evidence of God's superintending, as the wording of those Scriptures was changed in the C. 500 years between Isaiah & Jesus, but yet Jesus called the newer writing "this Scripture". And remember, HE had full authority to do that!

I think that you are saying that English translation that are done off the original language texts have authority and are infallible, correct? Not perfect translations, but are authoritative for all doctrines and practices?