Has Hank Hanagraaf left the faith?

[Darrell C]

If this is what Hank believes, yes, I believe he has left the faith.

I listen to him when I can between jobs and on the way home, and he has publicly made it clear he has not left the faith.

I like to listen to Hank because I just love Bible questions, and it gives me a chance to compare his answers with how I would answer. I have actually called him but he will not let someone speak much if they are not adoring, lol. Called him about Regeneration and his response (after he hung up on me) was pretty outrageous.

However, it seems pretty apparent that Hank is a sincere believer, so I give him credit for his efforts. I don't usually equate Doctrinal Error with no possibility that one is saved. He has, for years, been wrong on a number of issues, lol.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

The possibility of losing salvation

Since the question is "Has Hank left the faith," isn't there a conflict with the above erroneous position? In other words, shall we assume he "left the faith," or that he was never "of the faith?"

Do we condemn the many groups that also teach the possibility of losing salvation? There are a lot of them.


God bless.

 

[TCassidy]

Since the question is "Has Hank left the faith," isn't there a conflict with the above erroneous position? In other words, shall we assume he "left the faith," or that he was never "of the faith?"

I think you may have conflated salvation and "the faith." He has certainly left conservative evangelicalism in favor of the sacerdotalistic sacramentarianism of Eastern Orthodoxy.

Do we condemn the many groups that also teach the possibility of losing salvation? There are a lot of them.

We condemn all false doctrine.

 

[Reformed]

I quickly did a google search and GotQuestions came up with a response on what is the Greek Orthodox Church and this section of their answer I found troubling.



from What is the Greek Orthodox Church?

If this is what Hank believes, yes, I believe he has left the faith.

Eastern and Greek Orthodox believe that baptism is a necessary prerequisite for salvation. They don't believe in the Protestant teaching of justification by faith. Baptism, faith, and works are all necessary. This is not just heterodoxical, its heretical.

Both Orthodox claim to trace their origin to the patristic age. They claim that as a badge of honor, believing that first century roots speak to their theological purity. The problem with that view is that the patristic age was rife with error. It's was the age of heresies, small and large. The Orthodox Church has maintained many of these heresies.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

 

[Darrell C]

I think you may have conflated salvation and "the faith." He has certainly left conservative evangelicalism in favor of the sacerdotalistic sacramentarianism of Eastern Orthodoxy.

Does the Bible distinguish between "The Faith" and salvation?

We condemn all false doctrine.

And Hank teaches his share, so what difference does it make what group he associates with?


God bless.

 

[rlvaughn]

But Albert Mohler just had a lecturer in at SBTS who was teaching the seminarians Eastern Orthodox spirituality techniques:

www.baptistboard.com/threads/eastern-orthodox-lecturer-at-sbts.103516/#post-2292698

There is no defense of having such a lecturer from me.

Alpha & Omega Ministries produced an outstanding video on this issue though it is lengthy. I found it to be a fair assessment of both the Orthodox Church and Hank's departure from evangelicalism.

Since you note that it is lengthy, could you give us the gist of what we'll be listening to? Thanks.

 

[TCassidy]

Does the Bible distinguish between "The Faith" and salvation?

Yes.

And Hank teaches his share, so what difference does it make what group he associates with?

The Dutch Reformed Church is evangelical while the EO is not. As the EO is not evangelical does that not imply that Hank is no longer evangelical and thus has left "the (evangelical) faith?"

 

[Yeshua1]

If Hank says he has not denied the faith once delivered, what exactly does he think that faith is?

The doctrine of justification by faith is virtually absent from the history and theology of the Orthodox Church.

Instead, Greek Orthodoxy emphasizes theosis (literally, “divinization”), the gradual process by which their members become more and more like Christ.

What many in the Orthodox tradition fail to understand is that “divinization” is the progressive result of salvation, not a requirement for salvation itself.

Other Orthodox distinctives that are in conflict with the Bible include:

The equal authority of church tradition and Scripture

Discouragement of individuals interpreting the Bible apart from tradition

The perpetual virginity of Mary

Prayers for the dead

Baptism of infants without reference to individual responsibility and faith

The possibility of receiving salvation after death

The possibility of losing salvation

Salvation is achieved by performing 7 Sacraments during a persons's lifetime. These are 'Channels' in which they receive God's Grace.

To achieve salvation (justification), both faith and works are considered necessary.

Worship of icons.

Veneration of Mary.

Etc., etc., etc.

The Apostle paul would delver the pronouncement against that church of being in name only Christian, as they deny the very Lord who paid for sins on the Cross by their doctrines!

 

[Yeshua1]

Yes.

The Dutch Reformed Church is evangelical while the EO is not. As the EO is not evangelical does that not imply that Hank is no longer evangelical and thus has left "the (evangelical) faith?"

Has he left the faith once and for all delivered to the saints, Yes, as that church denies the very justification Jesus died for, and His Apostles died for to get unto us in the scriptures!

 

[Yeshua1]

Would say that he has now left the truth of Christianity for a fasle church and its false teachingas, but is still saved, but really now confused!

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C said: ↑
Does the Bible distinguish between "The Faith" and salvation?

Yes.

Could you explain that?

Darrell C said: ↑
And Hank teaches his share, so what difference does it make what group he associates with?

The Dutch Reformed Church is evangelical while the EO is not. As the EO is not evangelical does that not imply that Hank is no longer evangelical and thus has left "the (evangelical) faith?"

So if a group is evangelical...they are in the faith? And we do not consider the error they teach?

Hank, from what I can gather, is a partial preterist and regularly teaches error. His association with any group does not change that fact.

And you change the focus from "the faith" to "the evangelical faith," that is not what you were asked about.

"The Faith" is euphemistic for salvation and that is the focus of my question, as to whether it is not asking if he has "de-converted" by joining another group which...teaches error. The assumption is that was saved, and left the faith, and most people who read this thread are going to question his salvation.

For the record, I think he is saved, and sincere in his beliefs, and that he is doing the Will of God in his ministry. I also think it very possible that Preterists and partial Preterists can be saved.




God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Has he left the faith once and for all delivered to the saints, Yes, as that church denies the very justification Jesus died for, and His Apostles died for to get unto us in the scriptures!

So you think he has left Christianity but is still saved?

Would say that he has now left the truth of Christianity for a fasle church and its false teachingas, but is still saved, but really now confused!

He has been confused about numerous things for years. I see no reason why his affiliation with another group changes anything.


God bless.

 

[reformed_baptist]

I wonder id such discussions as this miss the point - I'm not responsible for the spiritual state of hank - I am however responsible for my own spiritual state!

Maybe, rather then looking at the spec in his eye, I need to be concerned with the log in my on eye and maybe I need to very aware that, 'but for the grace of God go I.'

Such events as this one provide us all with an opportunity to gives ourselves a spiritual health check and ensure we are pressing forward - we don't do that by questioning others salvation - but by examining our own!

 

[TCassidy]

Could you explain that?

Sure. "The faith," as the term is used in the bible, is a reference to the entire body of doctrine collectively as taught in the bible.

So if a group is evangelical...they are in the faith?

Not necessarily.

And we do not consider the error they teach?

You may not, but I do.

And you change the focus from "the faith" to "the evangelical faith," that is not what you were asked about.

Because the evangelical faith is "the faith" spoken of in the bible. There is no mention in the New Testament to any sacerdotal or sacramental function of so-called "priests."

"The Faith" is euphemistic for salvation and that is the focus of my question, as to whether it is not asking if he has "de-converted" by joining another group which...teaches error.

First I disagree that "the faith" is referring to salvation. I believe it is referring to the entire body of doctrine taught in the bible.

As to his being "de-converted" - such is impossible. The preservation of all the saints in Christ is one of the absolutes of bible doctrine.

The assumption is that was saved, and left the faith, and most people who read this thread are going to question his salvation.

I cannot control what people think. Only what I say.

For the record, I think he is saved, and sincere in his beliefs, and that he is doing the Will of God in his ministry.

I am not qualified to question his salvation. Only God knows his heart. And he may well be sincere, but he is sincerely wrong. And he may be deluded into thinking he is doing God's will, but the errors of EO preclude that from being possible in anything except a permissive manner.

I also think it very possible that Preterists and partial Preterists can be saved.

So do I.

 

[Darrell C]

Darrell C said: ↑
Could you explain that?

Sure. "The faith," as the term is used in the bible, is a reference to the entire body of doctrine collectively as taught in the bible.

Not here...


2 Corinthians 13:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?


...it isn't.

One is in the faith, or a reprobate.

Is Hank a reprobate? Has he a corrupt mind? Is is end to be burned?

Darrell C said: ↑
So if a group is evangelical...they are in the faith?

Not necessarily.

I would agree, so why an emphasis on Hank leaving "the evangelical faith," which you have just clarified is not a guarantee of being a member of the Body of Christ?

Darrell C said: ↑
And we do not consider the error they teach?

You may not, but I do.

You know I do, lol. That is why I ask. The point is that we consider the error of all groups.

Darrell C said: ↑
And you change the focus from "the faith" to "the evangelical faith," that is not what you were asked about.

Because the evangelical faith is "the faith" spoken of in the bible. There is no mention in the New Testament to any sacerdotal or sacramental function of so-called "priests."

And I quote:

Darrell C said: ↑
So if a group is evangelical...they are in the faith?

Not necessarily.

But for the record, do we not all play a role of "priest?"

And is there really that much distinction between a Pastor and a Priest? Both serve in a role of leadership over a congregation.

Darrell C said: ↑
"The Faith" is euphemistic for salvation and that is the focus of my question, as to whether it is not asking if he has "de-converted" by joining another group which...teaches error.

First I disagree that "the faith" is referring to salvation. I believe it is referring to the entire body of doctrine taught in the bible.

I view both as equally true. "The Faith" rests on the entire body of Doctrine taught us in Scripture.

But, you know as well as I do that the OP questions whether Hank has left "The Faith," as understood as salvation, whether we want to define it as "the entire body of Doctrine in Scripture" or not. This also implies that the "Evangelical Faith" is the means of salvation, and given the diversity of Evangelical Faiths...that is too broad a brush. And it overlooks those Evangelical groups who also hold error, and do not abide by the "entire body of Doctrine of Scripture."

So if we assume that Hank was simply among those of "the Faith," and has now left it, and was never saved, are we not still...questioning his salvation?

When you say...

If Hank says he has not denied the faith once delivered, what exactly does he think that faith is?

The doctrine of justification by faith is virtually absent from the history and theology of the Orthodox Church.

...you are not equating the topic with salvation?

As to his being "de-converted" - such is impossible.

I agree, so I guess the primary question we would have to ask, rather than the OP, is...was Hank ever in the Faith?

Which brings us right back to questioning his salvation.

The preservation of all the saints in Christ is one of the absolutes of bible doctrine.

And I would agree, and hope Sproul can one day change perseverance to preservation, as you have here.

So the bottom line might seem to be, not if Hank has "left the faith," but if he has simply added to the error/s he has held to for years.

Darrell C said: ↑
The assumption is that was saved, and left the faith, and most people who read this thread are going to question his salvation.

I cannot control what people think. Only what I say.

On the contrary, you have very much influence over what people both think and say.

And I will PM you that is a reference to you being an Administrator.

Darrell C said: ↑
For the record, I think he is saved, and sincere in his beliefs, and that he is doing the Will of God in his ministry.

I am not qualified to question his salvation.

On the contrary, you are to know, by the fruit, whether the tree is good or bad, are you not?

And if you are to exhort to holding to the Doctrine and tradition of the Biblical record, it stands to reason that the implication is that you are to know it. This is particularly true for those holding positions of leadership. So in any given congregation, while the people under the teaching of the leadership have personal responsibility themselves, the leadership is held to a higher standard and will be held more accountable than the congregation itself. Hank will be held accountable for the teaching he has presented over the years, but many of those who have called in will not be, because they are learning, and looking to him as one who knows.

Only God knows his heart.

And I don't think you have to listen to his show very long to know his heart either. He believes what he teaches, regardless of the error. And in large part he offers basic answers to basic questions. Like most teachers.

So I guess the focus is just the matter of singling out a specific teacher for errors, when the fact is we can do this with all teachers found in public.

And he may well be sincere, but he is sincerely wrong.

Not on everything. And what I have found him in error about is echoed by numerous members here.

So have they left the faith?

And he may be deluded into thinking he is doing God's will, but the errors of EO preclude that from being possible in anything except a permissive manner.

He preaches Christ crucified, and I have heard him on more than one occasion clarify that salvation is by grace through faith alone. The oddities of his Theology don't come up that often.

Darrell C said: ↑
I also think it very possible that Preterists and partial Preterists can be saved.

So do I.

Quite magnanimous, ain't we.




God bless.

 

[rlvaughn]

Not here...

2 Corinthians 13:5
King James Version (KJV)

5 Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates?

...it isn't.

But here it seems to be:
Acts 16:5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Galatians 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Colossians 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

But, you know as well as I do that the OP questions whether Hank has left "The Faith," as understood as salvation, whether we want to define it as "the entire body of Doctrine in Scripture" or not.

Each will have to answer for himself or herself as to what they were thinking, but I did not take it that way.

When evangelist6589 wrote:

He recently joined the Greek Orthodox Church. But as far as I can tell he still holds the essentials of the faith and is a strong brother in the Lord.

and

Is the Greek Orthodox Church sound? When I mean sound do they affirm the essentials of the faith?

I thought he was talking about holding the essential doctrines of scripture, not whether or not Hank Hanegraaf was saved.

 

[TCassidy]

Not here...

Faith in Christ is one of the distinguishing characteristics of a true Christian; and to ascertain whether we have any true faith, therefore, is to ascertain whether we are a sincere Christian.

Is Hank a reprobate?

He has certainly disqualified himself regarding true doctrine.

Has he a corrupt mind?

I don't know.

Is is end to be burned?

I am not qualified to make that judgment.

I would agree, so why an emphasis on Hank leaving "the evangelical faith," which you have just clarified is not a guarantee of being a member of the Body of Christ?

Because the EO is sacerdotalistic and sacrementarian.

But for the record, do we not all play a role of "priest?"

Not in a sacerdotalistic nor sacrementarian sense.

And is there really that much distinction between a Pastor and a Priest? Both serve in a role of leadership over a congregation.

Yes. An EO priest speaks to God on behalf of the worshippers (I can speak for myself, thank you - that is what the priesthood of the believer is all about) and speaks for God to the worshippers (sorry, but God can speak for Himself too). In fact the EO church denies the priesthood of the believer.

But, you know as well as I do that the OP questions whether Hank has left "The Faith," as understood as salvation,

Maybe that is how you understood it but that is not how I understood it.

This also implies that the "Evangelical Faith" is the means of salvation,

Nope. The death, burial, and resurrection of Christ is the means of salvation.

So if we assume that Hank was simply among those of "the Faith," and has now left it, and was never saved, are we not still...questioning his salvation?

You seem to be. I do not.

...you are not equating the topic with salvation?

Nope.

So the bottom line might seem to be, not if Hank has "left the faith," but if he has simply added to the error/s he has held to for years.

If he now accepts the teachings of the EO he can no longer be considered to be in the faith as described in the bible.

On the contrary, you have very much influence over what people both think and say.

And I will PM you that is a reference to you being an Administrator.

My being an Administrator does not make me more right than a first time poster. The two are completely unrelated. In fact there are other Administrators who think I am wrong on some subjects just as I think they are wrong on some subjects.

On the contrary, you are to know, by the fruit, whether the tree is good or bad, are you not?

That passage is knowing the spirit of anti-christ by what they teach. It has nothing to do with our being fruit inspectors.

Not on everything.

I didn't say on everything.

And what I have found him in error about is echoed by numerous members here.

This section of the BB is limited to Baptists. There are no sacerdotal or sacramentarian Baptists.

So have they left the faith?

Have some Baptists strayed from the truth? Probably.

He preaches Christ crucified, and I have heard him on more than one occasion clarify that salvation is by grace through faith alone.

But that is not what the EO church preaches and if he is now in agreement with the EO, which his "baptism" seems to indicate, then he has either abandoned his former message or is actively deceiving the EO church.

 

[JonShaff]

I did not take it that the OP was asking whether or not Hank was/is saved. I took it as whether or not Hank has abandoned Evangelical Teachings for heretical sacramentalism.

 

[Darrell C]

But here it seems to be:
Acts 16:5 And so were the churches established in the faith, and increased in number daily.
Romans 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Galatians 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.
Colossians 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;
Colossians 2:7 Rooted and built up in him, and stablished in the faith, as ye have been taught, abounding therein with thanksgiving.
1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;
1 Timothy 6:10 For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows.
Titus 1:13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith;
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

So you are going to argue that "the Faith" in these verses do not speak euphemistically about the Christian Faith? And in other words, salvation in Christ, which is what Christianity is?

Let's look at a few (i'm out of time but made the mistake of logging back on again, lol):

Galatians 1:23 But they had heard only, That he which persecuted us in times past now preacheth the faith which once he destroyed.

I would point out that Paul preached Christ crucified.

The instructional teaching in his writing are not what we call the "faith."

In view is faith in Christ, as opposed to Judaism.

1 Timothy 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils;

Glad you brought this up.

Could you give me your view on what Paul means by these departing from the faith? I would suggest to you that he is on the same page as Peter in 2 Peter 2.

Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

So in the idea that...

Sure. "The faith," as the term is used in the bible, is a reference to the entire body of doctrine collectively as taught in the bible.

...we have to ask, was the entire body of Doctrine when this was written?

Kind of hard to think that. Better to view "the once delivered faith" the way most do, which is Faith in Christ.

And this particular verse was given in response to the OP:

TCassidy said: ↑
If Hank says he has not denied the faith once delivered, what exactly does he think that faith is?

The doctrine of justification by faith is virtually absent from the history and theology of the Orthodox Church.

Here Justification by faith is equated to "The Faith."

When evangelist6589 wrote:
and I thought he was talking about holding the essential doctrines of scripture, not whether or not Hank Hanegraaf was saved.

And the difference between your response and TCassidy's is that you addressed what the OP said, whereas T addressed the Title.

That is kind of the point, RL: the question of the title calls his salvation in question. Another question is "Why would Hank joining another group that is erroneous in Doctrine matter?" I do not see his teaching as very good. While I would agree with the idea he is sound on most basic issues, there is still much error which I see as significant. Whether those issues harm those that follow Hank or not, I myself doubt, because most of them are beginning students that are not getting much beyond basics.


God bless.

 

[Darrell C]

Faith in Christ is one of the distinguishing characteristics of a true Christian; and to ascertain whether we have any true faith, therefore, is to ascertain whether we are a sincere Christian.

But haven't you said you are not qualified to do that?

He has certainly disqualified himself regarding true doctrine.

Because he joined the EO?

He has disqualified himself for years, at least, according to your judgment.

Because the EO is sacerdotalistic and sacrementarian.

You deny the role of leadership in the Body of Christ? Pastors are viewed by many to be someone people can go to for intercession. That it is not exclusive doesn't change that.

And maybe I am not understanding you or perhaps the EO defines it differently, but I do not view the elements to be literal either.

Not in a sacerdotalistic nor sacrementarian sense.

Agreed in regards to sacerdotalism.

Going to need you to define what you mean by sacramentarian.

Yes. An EO priest speaks to God on behalf of the worshippers (I can speak for myself, thank you - that is what the priesthood of the believer is all about) and speaks for God to the worshippers (sorry, but God can speak for Himself too)

So no-one in the EO prays to God, or prays for people...except the priests?

I find that a little hard to believe.

Kind of like the saying "As long as there are tests in School there will be prayer in school."

In fact the EO church denies the priesthood of the believer.

Could you produce a statement from their official doctrine, I'd like to examine that, and to what extent they mean this.

Maybe that is how you understood it but that is not how I understood it.

Seems like you did:

TCassidy said: ↑
If Hank says he has not denied the faith once delivered, what exactly does he think that faith is?

The doctrine of justification by faith is virtually absent from the history and theology of the Orthodox Church.

You are not implying that if one rejects justification by faith they are rejecting "The Faith?"

You seem to be. I do not.

Not sure how you could possibly conclude I am questioning his faith, lol.

Nope.

Again, the point is the question of the OP, which most, if they are honest, are going to equate with salvation.

If one departs from the faith, we are not usually speaking about backsliding, but apostasy.

If he now accepts the teachings of the EO he can no longer be considered to be in the faith as described in the bible.

And again I ask...what made him qualified to be cosidered "in the faith" before?

If error precludes one is in the faith, then that is all of us.

My being an Administrator does not make me more right than a first time poster. The two are completely unrelated. In fact there are other Administrators who think I am wrong on some subjects just as I think they are wrong on some subjects.

It's okay, you're all wrong about something.

That passage is knowing the spirit of anti-christ by what they teach. It has nothing to do with our being fruit inspectors

I wasn't referring to John's teaching, but Christ's:


Matthew 7:16-20
King James Version (KJV)

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

This section of the BB is limited to Baptists.

Actually, its not. You should spend a little more time going over some of the threads that go on.

Just because someone says they are a Baptist, we can say, based on your judgment, they are not Baptists when they teach Doctrine that is not taught by Baptist groups (i.e., soul sleep, annihilation, pre-existing spirits, etc.).

But to clarify, I am okay with them calling themselves Baptists even though they have embraced doctrine/s not taught by known Baptist groups (independent Baptists, for example, that teach ecstatic speech).

. There are no sacerdotal or sacramentarian Baptists.

Again, define sacramentarian as you understand it and provide a source for your understanding, because I do not view the elements of Communion, for example, to be literal. I don't mind admitting my ignorance on this.

Have some Baptists strayed from the truth? Probably.

So they are no longer "in the faith?"

But that is not what the EO church preaches and if he is now in agreement with the EO, which his "baptism" seems to indicate, then he has either abandoned his former message or is actively deceiving the EO church.

Again...I am not much impressed with his "former message," lol.

Perhaps it might be better if you provide quotes from him that show he has "left the faith."


God bless.